Number of popular Janya ragams for different melakarthas

[carnatican]

Pardon me if this topic has been addressed before. Why is it that some melakartha ragams, like Harikambhoji, Karaharapriya and Shankarabharanam seem to have more "popular" janya raagams than many other melakarthas?

[shankarank]

Wild Guess! they have more vAdi - samvAdi pairs between either side of pancamam and less vivAditva between consecutive notes as well..

[shankarank]

And if you derive the same Janya from a vivAdi rAga somehow by omitting the vivAdi note - would anybody classify it under the vivAdi - less likely. This are all later adoptions anyways - vivAdis have less custodial rights because they are vivAdi

[sureshvv]

Mainly because the janya janaka relationship as it exists is flawed

[VK RAMAN]

Why are some of the words highlighted in blue and underscored?

[sureshvv]

May be bcos u have some malware?

[SabashBale]

In the current system of classification, I guess a Janya ragam is classified under the earliest Janaka ragam of the melakarta scheme in which the notes of the Janya ragam occur. If, for curiosity, a Janya ragam is classified under all possible melakarta ragams in which its notes occur, then I think it may not be that lop-sided. Would that be true?

[Rsachi]

Guys,
My guess is that between KHP, Harikambhoji and Shankarabharana, and their janya variants, we cover over 80% of ALL music round the world. I am taking Mohana to be a subset of S'bharanam altho it is normally shown under Kalyani.
Even in CM, the vast majority of songs are in shuddha madhyama ragas and among these three raga families.

Why? They just sound more musical to more ears. (vadi samvadi. Less vivadi).

The piano, guitar and almost all other such instruments have primary keys covering these ragas.

Do you agree?

[sureshvv]

May be we should have two Janaka ragas for each Janya raga to make them more anthromorphic

[Rsachi]

Suresh, i think there is some profound truth in your idea! Like Mendel's theory!

[sureshvv]

Need to build a more complete model though. One possible approach is that the 72 melakarta ragas are considered as the mothers and some of the major/ancient upanga ragas are promoted to play the paternal role.

[ramarama]

In his recent SPSS lec-dem, Ravikiran argued for why Mohanam and Hamsadhwani should be classified as Kalyani janyas rather than Sankarabharanam - because of how the particular swaras are handled in Mohanam and Hamsadhwani. His lec dem was more geerally about allied ragas, and families of ragas. He pointed out (perhaps obvious to most of you) that most ragas preceded the creation of the melakarta system. Given that, attempts to force-fit a janya raga to one scale or the other might be moot exercises, that are not very helpful to understand the true nature of a raga, and how to deliver a soulful rendition of it.

i did wonder after the lec-dem (whose quality made me marvel even more at this artiste's superlative command of music in so many facets - singing, chitraveena, OVK compositions, theory, composing for dance, etc.), whether some ragas are so close to each other that it is not much point trying to distinguish between them - if they create the exact same mood, and have very close to the same trademark phrases, and hardly any audience member can tell one from the other, why pretend that there are two different ragas there instead of just one, that has various shades?

[SabashBale]

ramarama wrote:

i did wonder after the lec-dem (whose quality made me marvel even more at this artiste's superlative command of music in so many facets - singing, chitraveena, OVK compositions, theory, composing for dance, etc.), whether some ragas are so close to each other that it is not much point trying to distinguish between them - if they create the exact same mood, and have very close to the same trademark phrases, and hardly any audience member can tell one from the other, why pretend that there are two different ragas there instead of just one, that has various shades?

Something I have been puzzled about for some time as well. It may be worthwhile to reads some posts around Post #81 under the subject 'Raga Moods' of this section, where the 'Bhup' and 'Deshkar' aspects of Mohanam are discussed. Leads me to think why some allied ragas cannot be merged into one superset and then call the presently existing allied ragas as different faces of the super-raga. As a personal example, I find Nayaki to be a very slow Darbar (or Darbar to be a very fast Nayaki). Why can't they be two faces of a 'Darbanayaki'?