The tyranny of words

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 05 Feb 2016, 20:59

Voltaire said, Lord take care of my friends, for I can take care of my enemies.

Carnatic music has been beating its chest about its vast and brilliant body of compositions. People constantly unearth obscure composers of yore and ascribe tongue-twisting works to them. We have thousands of songs in every language. We have people who sing the same songs at home, as bhajans in temples, and listen to masters presenting them in concerts.

Parents say their prodigy children know several hundred songs already. A mahavidwan is complimented for knowing 300 songs in Todi alone. Some musicians add new poems and English contemporary lyrics so they can connect with secular audiences. Some oldies like me love the last few songs in a concert full of bhava and bhakti. We resent these items being called tukkadas as if they are bread crumbs thrown to old dogs.

But what we consider our greatest asset is our biggest liability. Nowadays artistes are forgetting lyrics. They are mispronouncing words. Murdering languages. Some are glued to their iPads displaying lyrics and rarely have eye contact with audiences who are any way staring at their blinking WhatsApp and FB messages.

At a guess, in a concert of 12 songs, there would be at least half a dozen mistakes or issues with lyrics.

How do we DEAL WITH THIS MILLSTONE OF LYRICS? Should we allow singers to sing without words and have that rare advantage of instrumentalists?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 05 Feb 2016, 21:46

I agree. I am willing to contribute the lyrics I have to a group of people, experts in their own language(s), who are willing to proof read them and make the necessary corrections. The corrected lyrics can then be put on a website for everyone to access or be put on a CD and sold at a nominal cost.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Feb 2016, 22:46

Lakshman,
You said it.

The immense amount of time and responsibility you took, the dedication you have displayed in your search, means this: all that has been gathered has to be preserved. Corrections are a valuable thing--if only those who are good at it volunteer endless hours of their time for this effort.

As for music sans lyrics--it has its place of course. Yet, in CM, we simply cannot get away from compositions. It's like book burning--or submerging the Trinity's and hundred other composers' works in the deep sea.

It's like saying, the present generation does not care for the scriptures. Even if they do, they pronounce the sanskrit words imperfectly--so dump all the works!

We love words, we love the ones in the songs. How can we possibly toss them out? Meditation is valuable, but not to the extent that we give up hymns and lyrics in adoration of the gods...

We then have to live with rAga bhAvA alone--excluding what poetry can bring to music...

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Feb 2016, 22:55

I am going to sit this one out, as everyone knows my feelings about this!

I just want to point out that the tyranny Sri Sachi is talking about is magnified (by several orders of magnitude) when a vocalist sings for a dance performance!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Feb 2016, 23:06

Jayaram,
Where are you?

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 05 Feb 2016, 23:31

Lakshman-ji,
Your large reference source and proof-read final lyrics do fulfill a vital need. But sourcing the lyric prior to a concert presentation is only half the problem. And I do know that nearly every singer makes the effort to source the correct lyrics.

But I do see the other half of the problem to be more severe= how do the artistes understand the meaning, pronounce the words correctly with the right emphasis, and remember the lyrics on the stage as they present them? How do we temper our demand for ever new songs and lyrics in various languages? Are we not simply multiplying the problem by this urge to present new compositions, even newly composed ones, for each occasion?

I am a lover of sahitya. But I see sahitya also as a problem looming in CM. We need a solution to help every artiste, not just those few who are linguistically gifted or those able to remember words well.

I wonder how in theatre of olden days, people memorised dialogue. What were the memory aids apart from the prompter at the stage side?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Feb 2016, 23:47

Sachi,
Just internalizing, I think. Easier said than done, but that was part of it with the actors--

Nearly ten years ago, Jayaram (who was actively posting then), started the thread 'the tyranny of sahitya' which was truly a Hanuman's tail!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 05 Feb 2016, 23:53

Oh ten years ago! Arasi, your recalling that thread merely proves the adage, "geniuses think alike" with the rider that the two occurences can be ten years apart!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Feb 2016, 00:03

We old folks tend to remember things from the distant past more than what happened moments ago

With me, neither a genius then, nor now

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 06 Feb 2016, 07:26

"sarasa sangIta sAhitya stana-dvayayA' (sarasvatyA bhagavatyA - chAyA gauLa) (Dikshitar)

when sarasa becomes nirasa
words become tyrannical;
outpourings remain tukkada

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 06 Feb 2016, 08:24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHIjrZCAYp0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CKLVXNbtTk
tyranny ?
of words ??
No Sir.. Full measure of devotion is the key

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 06 Feb 2016, 10:49

Just swaras if you are tired!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuMUa2c_FqQ

Of course you need the longs and shorts and pauses at the right spots. The chandas ( the rhythmic meter - even if there is no verse) is a civilizational property and still divine!

You are in debt as soon as you use it!

The melody of course you can dismiss it as some light melodies in tODi.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 06 Feb 2016, 23:58

Thanks Shankaran, a beautiful piece of improvisation by the one and only BMK

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 07 Feb 2016, 01:26

Thanks Varsha. You have brought in the oratorial perspective. An orthogonal one to singing and very relevant to CM which is a finely balanced mixture of kalpita and kalpana sangeetham

Watch that Abbott and Costello link. I think you will all agree that there is incredible bhAvam in actor Charles Laughton's recitation. Recall this is a live show and not a studio recording with retakes etc. If he had stumbled for words it would have destroyed the emotional delivery. They talk about those cue cards in the early part of the clip and so as with all live shows, there would definitely have been cue cards of the text of the address. But he absolutely does not show any indication of referring to them even if he had eyeballed it.

I think there is a lesson there, both for artists and raiskas. CM purist rasikas go up and arms about an opened lyrics book or an iPad. Let us ignore such extreme purists. As Sachi correctly says, murdered lyrics can spoil the bhAvam for those who understand the lyrics. The solution is for the community to accept the fact it is perfectly fine if there are opened krithi books or iPads showing lyrics. Artists on their side of the bargain then focus on internalizing the lyrics with meaning but do not need to be fearful of forgetting a word here and there. That will free them up to focus on the emotional delivery of the song and spend their sAdhana time on that and not rote memorizing. They can be confident that they can eyeball the lyrics in case they get carried away in singing a line. But they have to do it such that their heads are not down looking at the lyrics all the time. Looking at the audience and singing to them is part of the bhAvam of a live performance. They can strive to strike that balance, just like Laughton does there. He may have eyeballed the cue cards but it is impossible to tell.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Feb 2016, 07:46

Delectable analysis, VKM! अर्थपूर्णः कोकिलगानः इव !

In that bar scene, Laughton enacts all the principles of getting it right.
He is deeply respectful of all those around him.
He has a reverence for what Lincoln had said.
He says the words cherishing and savouring their meaning every moment.
He is not looking for applause.
He is not trying to sound bombastic or important. He considers himself to be merely the one to articulate something profound that belongs to everyone, in an act of worship.

And what an audience. Innocence and earnestness writ large on them!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Feb 2016, 08:05

I feel like sharing this:
https://youtu.be/DMpcMKf_HuE

This Youtube video was created by me with much effort. Nothing compared to the achievement of that recording by DKP!
What a composition by Kalidasa! It touches every aspect of the creative performing art indeed. I cannot even begin to analyse the meaning of those words so wonderfully strung together, and supposedly improptu! What divine creativity indeed.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 07 Feb 2016, 09:46

If my Grandma was around today she ( a die hard CM Lover) would have snickered at this with the comment
Has he forggotten the lyrics ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4FtWdacrJ0
takes 8 mts to establish Chaya of the Chayanat
And I would have retorted with this
http://www.mediafire.com/listen/m8ctab8 ... alyani.mp3

Words are tyrannical only when .......music takes backseat

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 07 Feb 2016, 12:55

There are only two real solutions to the problem (if we agree that bad lyrics is bad music):

a. Ban vocal concerts. There will only be instrumental concerts.
b. Recast Carnatic concerts on the lines of Hindusthani. Just aaaallllaaap, swwaaarrrrram, just one line of saahityam with nerrrrrrraval.

With a few hundreds of years of Carnatic music behind us, we should realise that our concert format's main concern is the musical aspect, ragam, thaalam, etc., With dozens of languages being handled in each concert, it is impossible to do it perfectly, unless every musician is an MS. If you are OK with it, take it. Otherwise, .......

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Feb 2016, 13:51

KSSR,
You're very right. The present day CM music with its issues of sahitya is irredeemable. It is best not to know the lyrics and enjoy the version being given out. As Shakespeare said, where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise.

I attended paying Rs 2000 per ticket per day the festival by Times of India in Blr y'day. Three 90 minute concerts. The presenter called every performance mind-blowing. Maybe because the chief sponsor makes pressure cookers.
90% of the audience and 100% of the organisers were clueless about classical music. They all had a wonderful time. The main Sarod maestro who must have been paid in six figures played some tukkadas for some 20+ minutes totally including a raga he has invented called Ganesh Kalyan which sounds like a cross between yaman and pilu. See the Sarod in their logo. It is inverted laterally (or seen from behind!) The drums are African.

kssr · Post by **kssr** » 07 Feb 2016, 14:03

Rsachi
You are a courageous person to go to such a programme and to pay the price!!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Feb 2016, 15:03

Hmmmmmm.
Family pressure.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 07 Feb 2016, 20:49

Rsachi wrote:Family pressure.

No wonder - it was sponsored by people who know all about pressure (cooking), family or otherwise!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 07 Feb 2016, 21:04

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Feb 2016, 01:55

Rsachi wrote:I feel like sharing this:
https://youtu.be/DMpcMKf_HuE

This Youtube video was created by me with much effort. Nothing compared to the achievement of that recording by DKP!
What a composition by Kalidasa! It touches every aspect of the creative performing art indeed. I cannot even begin to analyse the meaning of those words so wonderfully strung together, and supposedly improptu! What divine creativity indeed.

Very good work there, Sachi. Makes listening to DKP that much more enjoyable while following the lyrics. I will put on my plate to take an effort to learn so I can understand it, but even without the word meaning, there is so much going for it. Just like the right alloy makes that 'ringing' sound of a bell, the Sanskrit phonemes when strung together like that in such an expert manner by a genius like kAlidAsa create that incredible sonorous and musical effect.

I can relate to the magnitude of hard work in making that video happen with the lyrics synchronized with the recitation by DKP. Thank you.

GautamTejasGaneshan · Post by **GautamTejasGaneshan** » 08 Feb 2016, 04:35

I gave two years of concerts with no words, as a vocalist,
mostly with mridangist Anantha R. Krishnan.

Here's a film of one of them:
https://vimeo.com/131352282

Here are full concert recordings of 14 more:
https://soundcloud.com/gautamtejasganes ... 2008-2011/

(These also had strictly no amplification,
no electronic sruti box, and no violin.)

Here's more about the project,
which was active from 2008 - 2010,
commissioned by the San Francisco Foundation,
called "New Directions in Indian Classical Music":

http://gautamtejasganeshan.com/newdirections.html

Here's part of what it says there:

"Essentially, it was a project to render Carnatic music as free-improvised, "pure" music. As if the music needed freeing or purifying. Now "new directions" is no more, and some other directions prevail. But for your interest, and as a record, here's a bunch of info about it. "

There's also a longer essay including the following paragraphs:

"What originated as a spontaneous musical outpouring of bhakti ("devotion") now typically occurs as a recitation of centuries-old material that may or may not reflect the personal convictions of the musician, and especially may or may not be relevant to a diverse worldwide audience with every capacity to experience the same wonder and awe as Tyagaraja did, but perhaps with little affinity for Lord Rama, his ishta-devam, much less an ability to understand his understated poetry in the Telugu language. This can place an upper bound on the integrity of the performance, and sometimes makes self-important virtuosic vehicles out of paeans originally written with such humility, intelligence, and fervor.

The realities of the new global context for this (and all) traditional music strain the original cultural coherence of artist and audience, with the effect that the central aesthetic value of this music, its subtle expression of universal human sentiment, is difficult for many new listeners to discover within the disorientation of "This is not my music" or "I don't speak that language" - especially in the case of Carnatic music, which has struggled to attain wider appeal with its focus on vocal repertoire in regional languages (even though it's awesome, right?). "

(That last parenthetical links to:
http://www.medieval.org/music/world/carnatic/cmc.html)

GautamTejasGaneshan · Post by **GautamTejasGaneshan** » 08 Feb 2016, 05:02

Also, when OP (@Rsachi) mentions "some musicians" who "add new poems and English contemporary lyrics so they can connect with secular audiences" -

I think he's referring to me.

Now, what he's saying is not technically correct.
(although I appreciate that he cares enough to bring this up!)

First, I don't write so that I can connect with audiences,
although that is a welcome by-product.

I write in order to sing as sincerely as possible,
and the way I see the music (or hear it, whatever)
probably shares a lot with how a generic cultivated listener,
and native speaker of English, hears it.

In other words, I represent my own audience.

As a professional artist, I don't deny that it's welcome to be able to connect with people in a new way, and as my bio says, my songs "allow listeners the unprecedented experience of having a natural linguistic purchase on the complex song forms of a rich oral tradition. "

Second, all kinds of people mean all kinds of things by "secular" - the French, the Indians, etc. - but probably my lyrics meet none of those definitions.

Nearly all of my songs address "You."
Because they have to, and because I want to.

You try singing about something like your parking meter,
or even your marriage, or whatever mundane.

You're not gonna feel like keeping on going with niravals,
I'll tell you that much from experience.

There's an intelligence in idolatry, and it's something like what Levinas says about "alterity" - looking into the eyes of even a posited "other," a divine "other" - it does something, ennobles, calls forth the best in you.

Singing as worship is the best singing - and I am very confident of this view, having subjected it to a decade of tests, carried out earnestly, which failed.

Anyway, I don't know what my ultimate point is here, but I'll leave you with this song of mine, set to the tune of the "Dhavalaroopa..." Tiruppugazh that GNB sang so nicely, and addressing the issue of just who is "you":

--

When I say you, do I have a clue
as to whose attention I'm calling to,
whose ears I'm asking for,
whose eyes I yearn to look into?

May their enlightened stare
calmly return my gaze.

Some character, some fairy
tale archetypically arrived
from mythology, beloved
by everybody?

But I mean something else,
someone whose face only
occurs to me, whose reality,
whose personality, just may be
a trope whose poetry
makes believe that I'll see
an idolatrous fantasy,
whereas I don't stand on
any ceremony.

So I invoke freely
you, epithetically.

Even if invented you still reflect my philosophy
that an unaccountable demon bears responsibility
for what's best in me.

--

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 08 Feb 2016, 11:58

So I invoke freely
you, epithetically.

Even if invented you still reflect my philosophy
that an unaccountable demon bears responsibility
for what's best in me.

Gautam,
Your attitude to music and audiences resonates with me. I like these words.

I do think that the work of each well-recognised composer springs from a similar sentiment, and the subject of this thread is the importance and sanctity of words composed by these composers which currently suffer distortion in our music concerts.

I started long back a project (short-lived

) called Sangeeta Setu. Its byline was that it connects listeners and musicians to each other and also to a higher reality that resides in all of us. I feel this triumvirate is present in each musical session, however big or small, however famous and large.

And to think that each one of us is a Body-Mind-Intellect complex with a long history of acquired impressions, tendencies and urges!

PS:I had you as much as others in mind when talking of new lyrics. One example is Maitrim Bhajata. Another is the English song Rajaji penned for MSS's UN concert. There have also been many less-publicised efforts to compose contemporary lyrics in Indian languages as well as in English. Some do it for a lark!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 08 Feb 2016, 12:19

"The Krithi – Its Contribution to Modern Music" by GNB

Click on that line and read an eloquent article by a great singer and composer!

GautamTejasGaneshan · Post by **GautamTejasGaneshan** » 08 Feb 2016, 20:19

I appreciate that GNB entered the fray from time to time.
Shows that CM singers can feel free to publish articles too, I guess.

But nothing to rock the boat here, really.
An eloquent summary, as you say.

Thanks for the link @Rsachi!

- G

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 09 Feb 2016, 13:05

Interesting article by GNB. In this article he juxtaposes the adjectives Classical and Romantic as opposites which I thought was of a much later origin!

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 09 Feb 2016, 13:50

Suresh,
GNB makes his point in the context of khayal etc. in HM which departed from Dhrupad which had principally deeply religious even spiritual words. Khayal came up around the Mughal period and they needed "secular" bandishes. Example: Sagari Rain Jaagat Beete More Balama Nahin Aaye roughly meaning, " it's almost daybreak and why has my man not arrived yet?"

I think even in Western classical music, they moved from principally religious themes in the Baroque era (Bach) to more "our day, our life, our world" themes by the time of Mozart and Beethoven.

GautamTejasGaneshan · Post by **GautamTejasGaneshan** » 09 Feb 2016, 21:35

I've heard it said that bandishes like that can carry an interesting double meaning:

"It's almost daybreak and why has my man not arrived yet?"

"The hour of my death approaches and why has my protector left me?"

Still, gotta admit it's probably less religious than O Jagadamba.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 09 Feb 2016, 21:57

Gautam,
Add this some more:
Have been wrongly parked for hours, how come no ticket yet?

Have been searching for the top Sa all along, how come I never get it right?

......

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 09 Feb 2016, 22:32

http://www.karnatik.com/c4026.shtml

There is no double meaning here - it is plain. All that one needs is to put a mudra 'vekaTESa' to tell the world that this varnam is addressed to the Lord. Probably this is what people call 'secular'.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 10 Feb 2016, 10:12

Some oldies like me love the last few songs in a concert full of bhava and bhakti. We resent these items being called tukkadas as if they are bread crumbs thrown to old dogs.

HERE is some gold dust blowing your way

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/abi02jd ... _Dasar.mp3

Let us ignore such extreme purists. As Sachi correctly says, murdered lyrics can spoil the bhAvam for those who understand the lyrics. The solution is for the community to

to... treat it analogously to the relationship between motivation and "hygeine" factors in Management Practices.
The presence of these attributes does not necessarily enhance the performance ( or atleast does not guarantee it )
The absence of these though mean a lot .
And then...there are geniuses like TRS

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 10 Feb 2016, 10:23

It is very unfortunate that we spend time looking into how to make sense of a word that originated from fixed dogmas of some institutions outside of our culture. Some concept that started with some king wanting to marry again - but facing obstruction from a dogmatic institution - is being thrust upon a diverse culture which had no institutional authority - nothing close.

I am not being explicit just to avoid this thread from being moved to Lounge or my post outright being deleted!

Using that word is a form of cultural violence inflicted on us.

That is the real tyranny if you will!

Let that stay where it is - a limit on the powers of a constitutionally elected government. Should not be brought into cultural spaces - which includes educational institutions as well even if run by the government.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 10 Feb 2016, 11:02

Varsha,
Thanks! TRS is very emotive. Those words about "giliya mariyanu tandu..." always move me very much. The essence of Maya! From avidya to vidya.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Feb 2016, 13:01

Gautam,
Welcome to Rasikas.org. Talented young folks like you who participate in discussions ensure its well being and help pave the way to healthy interactions here in the coming years.

engirundO vandAi sung by R. Suryaprakash (Arasi CD VOL:4) released last year, happens to contain the kind of compositions you were wondering about. You can find more about them elsewhere in the forum

SrinathK · Post by **SrinathK** » 10 Feb 2016, 21:06

An export like CM will eventually succeed in the long run outside it's home turf only when it integrates into the local society where it goes.

This means adapting itself to new languages, new themes, new compositions. Things like ragas or talas would remain unchanged for the most part. Or it might inspire a new species even. If CM does not do that it will remain an alien. Even on home ground most people find it alien.

The process of import and export has always been going on throughout musical history and has come with it's own share of noise and fears, and what might happen next is only an extension of the same.

The old gold however is here to stay and it isn't going anywhere soon. It is up to the new to show that it will attain greatness that will be appreciated even centuries later.

Aditto · Post by **Aditto** » 11 Feb 2016, 12:05

Tcha...Thca.....Pthch...Kchhh...TRrr....Ptch....

I guess I have conveyed my point, without words and let the raagam be Sankarabharanam set to misra chaapu

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Feb 2016, 12:55

Hey, were you eavesdropping on my singing?

Aditto · Post by **Aditto** » 11 Feb 2016, 13:11

Haha

No No. I am pretty sure you sing like the name.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 11 Feb 2016, 14:15

Aditto,
This sahitya eloquently describes a dhobi ghat!
Congratulations!

Aditto · Post by **Aditto** » 11 Feb 2016, 14:33

Glad people could understand it

See that is what I have put in my singing. Lots of cleansing and cleaning

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Feb 2016, 19:28

Aditto wrote:Tcha...Thca.....Pthch...Kchhh...TRrr....Ptch....

I guess I have conveyed my point, without words and let the raagam be Sankarabharanam set to misra chaapu

And after that, you can finish up with 'sonnadai seidiDa sAhasamA?' - in all likelihood, the parrot will be clueless as to what was said....(Oh wait - it could be a male parrot, in which case, regardless of how clear you were, it would still be clueless, perhaps?)...

Aditto · Post by **Aditto** » 12 Feb 2016, 09:58

rshankar wrote:
Aditto wrote:Tcha...Thca.....Pthch...Kchhh...TRrr....Ptch....

I guess I have conveyed my point, without words and let the raagam be Sankarabharanam set to misra chaapu
And after that, you can finish up with 'sonnadai seidiDa sAhasamA?' - in all likelihood, the parrot will be clueless as to what was said....(Oh wait - it could be a male parrot, in which case, regardless of how clear you were, it would still be clueless, perhaps?)...

Had we been in Panchatantram days, probably the parrot would have understood

Aditto · Post by **Aditto** » 12 Feb 2016, 10:21

My thoughts on the topic :

1. Just because there are dozen mistakes, we cannot think of a concert without words. We all need idol or some image to meditate upon till we are in a position where we are one with 'Parachit'. Similarly, we do need words till one can lose or identify with the ragam. Few people are exceptions.

I wonder how much of Saveri singing/playing brings Ambal before our eyes than the neraval 'Kadamba Vana Nilayae 'Kanja Lochane Bhavani"

Elimination of words is not solution.

2. Do we not attribute gayaki style to instruments

Without words, the review would like this :

1 ? - Nata (S)
2. Siva Siva Anarada - Pantuvarali (NS) - T
3. ? - Saveri (N @ ?, S)

3. Ideally, one should listen music and not see music. So, if the singer(s) look at iPad instead of us, it is okay to an extent as long as we listen. But, singing without looking at anything looks good. Not denying it. For a new song, if the presentation is neat, it is okay to refer notes or iPad. Even after 30 times the song is sung in concerts, looking @ notes will not look good.

4. I would say it would be better if we ask the artists not to do pronunciation mistakes. If not directly, through mail or some medium which reaches them. This might sound far fetched but I think it is what needs to be done.

On a funny note, let us talk MA into introducing a category of awards for 'No Pronunciation Mistakes' just like our dictation in childhood days

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 12 Feb 2016, 11:41

Aditto,
Ditto to all your ideas!

You know ditty in old English means a simple song generally with words?
John Keats says in his immortal poem, Ode on a Grecian Urn:

Heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard
Are sweeter; therefore, ye soft pipes, play on;
Not to the sensual ear, but, more endear'd,
Pipe to the spirit ditties of no tone:

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 12 Feb 2016, 11:44

sureshvv wrote:Interesting article by GNB. In this article he juxtaposes the adjectives Classical and Romantic as opposites which I thought was of a much later origin!

Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance, regarded as an iconic work of literature, is primarily based on trying to resolve the two conflicting world views, "Classical" and "Romantic". This book came out in the early 1970s. I have not heard of these two adjectives being used in contrast to each other before this book. I am greatly intrigued by GNB doing this in this essay.

Aditto · Post by **Aditto** » 12 Feb 2016, 12:03

Rsachi wrote:You know ditty in old English means a simple song generally with words?

No sir, I do not know this

mUlAdhAra nAda merugutE mudamagu mOkSamurA
kOlAhala sapta svara grahamula gurutE mOkSamurA O manasA