Lyrics & meaning- Mogudochi

mathura vijay · Post by **mathura vijay** » 08 May 2007, 01:21

Can You Help Me With Lyrics And Word Meaning For Sri Sarangapani's Mogudochi In Sahana

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 10 May 2007, 10:08

Here are the lyrics:

P - mogadochi pilachedu poyi vaddunaa
preeti marava kundu naa saami

AP - sogasugaada naadu suguna venugopala
baalyamandu bottu gattina saami

C - bhaanu padmamuvale dooramundina nemi
nee paada mande charanani
nee dhyaanamu veruleka neeve daivamani
dalachi yundi dhairyamu viduvanu

vm · Post by vm » 11 May 2007, 20:16

thankyou knandago2001

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 14 May 2007, 02:25

Sarangapani who composed mOgudocci has composed over 200 padams but his songs are not as well known as Ksetragna's.
I have a book that is in telugu script. I would very much appreciate if someone could transliterate these songs for me. Thanks.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 14 May 2007, 09:37

For the benefit of viewers, I am giving hereunder the meaning of the padam - in general.

P - My husband is calling me; shall I go?
Please do not forget my love, my Lord.
A - O Paramour, my virtuous vEnugOpAla!
O Lord who married me (tied thAli) in my youth (or childhood)
C - Like sun and lotus, so what even if there is distance?
That I seek refuge in your feet,
That nothing except your meditation, that You are the Lord,
I am remembering; I shall not let go courage.

In another thread, there was a discussion that, had tyAgarAja taken a ton of money from the kings and patrons and then composed the poem 'nidhi cAla sukhamA', then his words would sound hollow.

Now applying this yardstick to this padam, who is this person who has written this padam; what is/was he?

Is this is a courtesan song?

It has become a fashion to coin padams and javalis in Telugu because these being meant for consumption by Tamilians, they do not understand anything about the meaning and gulp up every thing - even trash - if written in Telugu. Probably, that is why Telugu seems to be trotted out as most suitable langauge for Music.

Like they say, all that is written in Sanskrit is not knowledge, similarly, all that is written in Telugu is not music. Telugu seems to have become a language patronised by surrogate advertisers of their wares.

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 14 May 2007, 18:50

a short video clip of the padam
http://www.nadayantra.com/video_engl.htm

lyrics in transliteration scheme

P - moguDocci pilacEDu pOyi vaddunA
prIti maravakuNDu nA sAmi

AP - sogasugADa nAdu suguNa vENugOpAla
bAlyamaNdu boTTu gaTTina sAmi

C - bhAnu padmamuvale dUramuNDina nEmi
nI pAdamaNdE sharaNani
nI dhyAnamu vErulEka nIvE daivamani
dalaciyuNDi dhairyamu viDuvanu

here boTTu means (tALi boTTu) as rightly translated by vgvindan.

in charanam second line it is not charanani but sharaNani
caraNaM is feet, sharaNaM is refuge.

shishya · Post by **shishya** » 14 May 2007, 19:57

I my opinion, this padam appears to be sung by a nAyika who sees herself as being wedded to lord vENugOpAla ever since her childhood. Now her lawful husband is demamding her attention. So she is expressing her misery due to this separation from the Lord. It is an expression of madhura bhakti and not necessarily a maiden hating to leave her lover because to fulfil her duties to her husband.

vgvindan, please refrain from making blanket comments against the Telugu language. I know you will be hurting sentiments of many posters here. If we do not undertand it, then it is our shortcoming as humans. I personally do not sing items that I consider of lower quality Telugu. Let's choose wisely. More important, let's try to understand the sentiment of the composers and reflect it when we sing/appreciate their compositions.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 14 May 2007, 20:15

shishya,
I think I have not been able to properly convey when I said what I said about Telugu language. It is not a derogatory reference to Telugu language. I may point out that my mother tongue is Telugu and I would be the last person to insult the language. It is utilisation of the language to camouflage the contents. I have seen in this forum javali in Telugu language which is a courtesan song and I have pointed it out also. I shall try to give reference.

There are inherent contradictions in the kRti. In Anupallavi it is said 'bAlyamandu boTTu kaTTina sAmi'; but Anupallavi begins with 'sogasugADu' - a beau or paramour. How a husband (vENugOpala) can become a sogasugADu? I am aware that we can also give other (far-fetched) meanings to this word.

If the composer is indeed an another Meera or jayadEva, I would salute him. In the absence of any such information, 'vENugOpAla' may mean anybody and not necessarily Lord kRSNa.

Composers sentiments are not to be understood only from their padams and kRti but also by who they were and how they lived.

Facts may be very inconvenient at times, but let us not brush them under the carpet. Persons who sing padams should verify the meanings lest they themselves come under cloud for singing 'shady' songs.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 14 May 2007, 20:20

Shishya, Please refer to -
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=46478#p46478 - Post No 7

shishya · Post by **shishya** » 14 May 2007, 20:41

vgvindan,

Yes javalis are courtesan songs- usually in the praise of the presiding kings. But padas have been interpreted to be expressions of madhura bhakti where although the lyrics appear to address mundane love, the nAyikas actually express their love towards almighty- similar to the love of gOpikas to Lord Krishna. I cannot recall any references now, but I remember reading about this about 10 years ago. The logic is something like this:
the composer considers himself as the nAyika longing for the love of the Lord and expressing jealousy not very different from ordinary maidens while thinking that the Lord does not approach them becasue He is busy chasing other women. Theer is a whole gamut of emotions that these composers as nAyikas express. For instance in the sAranga padam ekkaDi nEstamulekkaDi nenaru- the nAyika laments to her friend that bad company has encourages the innocent Lord to approach another woman. The padam goes this way:

ekkaDi nEstamulekkaDi nenaru
evvarikevvarE

mrokkina vinaka mA muvvagOpAlunA
mudita inTiki drOsirE O cheliyarO

idigO ennaDu irugu- porugulerugani vAni-
-kennennO bOdhincirE
adi cakkani jANayani vAni dAni illu kadalakunDaga cEsirE
O celiyarO

Both kShEtrayya padas and sArangapAni padas belong to this category. I have not read the life history of sArangapAni, but kShetrayya's life history suggests metamorphosis similar to vEmana's and the transformed composer saw himself as the nAyika longing for the Lord's love. That is the basis for my opinion.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 May 2007, 20:46

vgv,

If the composer is indeed an another Meera or jayadEva, I would salute him. In the absence of any such information, 'vENugOpAla' may mean anybody and not necessarily Lord kRSNa.

not all composers "live what they sang" and not all compositions are necessarily a reflection of inner emotions. It is not a new revelation that classical music was used in courts not just for bhakthi, but for other medium as well. They were used for dance and drama - which implies stories - mythological and made-up ones. Javalis, padams etc. were indeed more of this kind. Now you are perfectly ok to find them disagreeable and even trashing them - but doing so because of comparison to bhakthi oriented cm compositions, or thinking/implying cm was intended only for bhakthi etc. is IMO is misguided. I think almost all know that javalis and padams are quite different from the lofty lyrics of bhakthi oriented composers. Many people still appreciate them still in a different way. You may not.

It is also well established that sugar-coating amorous songs by using the Lord as the object of desire was quite common. IMO that is just a way of "toning things down". Of course doesnt mean it was the case every time - in other words not every case reflected madhura bhakthi and vice-versa. However, this was definitely an acceptable form of expression in the arts in the past.

Arun

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 14 May 2007, 21:00

Arun,

Persons who sing padams should verify the meanings lest they themselves come under cloud for singing 'shady' songs.

This is the thrust of my post.

because of comparison to bhakthi oriented cm compositions, or thinking/implying cm was intended only for bhakthi etc. is IMO is misguided.

Thanks.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 14 May 2007, 21:14

Persons who sing padams should verify the meanings lest they themselves come under cloud for singing 'shady' songs.
This is the thrust of my post.

Many people already this know - it is nothing new. Padams and javalis have been around for a while and people (very very respected artists/families) have been singing them for ages. Now you may think they are shady and they shouldnt sing - they obviously dont think the same.

because of comparison to bhakthi oriented cm compositions, or thinking/implying cm was intended only for bhakthi etc. is IMO is misguided.
Thanks.

Oh come on! If you thought that way, then i am sorry - it is most certainly misguided. If we read up books on Indian classical music - even the very very first one (natyaSastra), it is quite evident that music was an art form used to express many many things - not just devotion. Now these are in the same books which assigned the "source of all music" to divinity - but that didnt make them say "that means only devotion should be used". All these authors obviously didnt see anything wrong with the various uses of arts ( but I am not saying that means everyone should treat every such use equally, and we shouldnt exercise judgement). From what I could tell, it was never that classical music was reserved for devotion only.

Arun

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 14 May 2007, 23:08

Arun,
The following verse from nArada bhakti sUtra may be relevant for our discussion -

guNa mAhAtmyAsakti-rUpAsakti-pUjAsakti-smaraNAsakti-dAsyAsakti-sakhyAsakti-vAtsalyAsakti-kAntAsakti-Atma nivEdanAsakti-tanmayatAAsakti-parama virahAsakti rUpA EkadhA api EkadasadhA bhavati || 82 ||

"Bhakti, or Divine Love, though in itself one only, manifests in the following eleven different forms : (a) Love of the glorification of the Lord's blessed qualities, (b) Love of His enchanting beauty, (c) Love of worship, (d) Love of constant remembrance, (e) Love of service, (f) Love of Him as a friend, (g) Love of Him as a son, (h) Love of Him as that of a wife for her husband, (i) Love of self-surrender to Him, (j) Love of complete absorption in Him, (k) Love of pain of separation from Him." (Translation by Swami Tyagisananda).

Of these, poems in respect of (i) and (j) are difficult to be written by ordinary mortals. Therefore I shall not touch upon them.

Of the remaining, anyone - even if one is not a bhAgavata or bhakta, in the real sense, can write poems excepting in the category of kAntAsakti - the husband and wife bhAva.

There are many 'poets' in our part of the country who write poems on Gods and Goddesses without actually experiencing what they write. But they are all harmless poems because the perons who sings them can experience the bhAva even if the writer could not do so. Even otherwise, they are harmless by themselves.

However, the kAntAsakti bhAva is a very delicate subject and needs to handled very carefully. This is what Swami Sivananda says about Ras Leela which is in fact 'kAntAsakti' -

Rasa Lila is divine sport (Kreeda) with the devotees for bringing about their union with the Lord through Prema or pure divine love. Rasa is the sweetest juice of Prema. It is the manifestation of divine love or higher emotion which takes the devotee to the magnanimous height of holy communion with the Lord.
Lord Krishnaâ€™s Rasa Lila is the mystery of mysteries. It is the secret of secrets. It is not a matter for intellectual discussion. It is a holy matter for silent meditation for devotees. It should not be divulged to insincere critics or those who have no devotion to the Lord. It should be studied with reverence and faith. It contains Madhurya Rasa, the crowning glory of Bhakti, which leads to absolute self-surrender and absorption in the Lord.
Sri Krishna performed the Rasa Lila to destroy carnality by means of pure love or Prema. He taught humanity through the Rasa Lila how to convert passion into dispassion and pure love, and how to wean the mind from the sexual Vasanas and instincts. He showed that through Madhurya Rasa one can effect total self-surrender or Atma-Nivedan, and attain Sayujya or absorption in the Lord or husband of our hearts.
Rasa Lila was a sport (Kreeda) which was meant to build up the faith, to strengthen spirituality towards holiness, to improve the minds of the Gopis in particular and humanity in general.
Krishna was ten years old when he performed the Rasa Lila. During the dance, the Gopis saw Krishna only, within, without, around and everywhere. They forgot all about their homes, husbands, children and parents. Their hearts melted in Lord Krishna, the Supreme Soul. The fire of devotion brought about a fusion of hearts. The glue of Prema cemented their hearts with Krishna. The Gopis were not ordinary women. They were exalted personages.

Similar views have been expressed by Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa on the subject.

Recently, I posed a question why 'kAntAsakti' is a one-side affair? It is true, women in our society are entitled to worship the Lord as a husband. Meera has done this. Man cannot do so - He cannot think of God as his wife - though Bharati tried his hand at it, but did not quite succeed.

If a man writes poems on kAntAsakti, he should be in the category of Jayadeva, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa or tyAgarAja. (I am not aware whether Purandara Dasa has written any songs in this category.) Otherwise, any man of lesser morals writing on kAntAsakti is having a 'dangerous mind'.

A women writing poems on kAntAsakti which is not meant for her own divine purposes but for public display belongs to the same category as the man who does. Let me clarify, Meera did not write songs for public display - if we sing them, it is not her fault.

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 14 May 2007, 23:15

padams composed by Sarangapani
http://carnatica.net/composer/sarangapani.htm

â€œcharananiâ€

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 14 May 2007, 23:20

kn,

moral policing

Would you call the statutory warning on the cigarette packet 'Smoking is injurious to health' also as moral policing?

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 14 May 2007, 23:35

knandago
I read the sify URL you posted. Some of the padas discussed therein and their details- they talk of nothing but sexual depravity. I can see neither art nor romance/love in it. No SRngAra no refinement, just base desires that would make even the liberal-minded blush in te context of music. What is so romantic or artistic about "grabbing money" or "asking for a means to abort a foetus" or a husband being a pimp for his wife?

Sex can be an art as amply illustrated by vAtsyAyana and can be a demonstration of unconditional or unounded love as seen in many of our composers. But some of those padas- I cannot, howmuchever I stretch, fit them in this category. Sex is not dirty, but talking about it openly and crassly is.

shishya · Post by **shishya** » 14 May 2007, 23:35

For those intersted, here is a book on sArangapANi in Telugu ... gives his life story and analysis of his compositions from literary perspective:

http://ia331313.us.archive.org/3/items/ ... 927mbp.pdf

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 May 2007, 00:43

Nice post again vgv. Most of it rings with me too - although to me honestly, the one which makes sense easiest is (e) Love of service. I will post separately a basic question I have about Bhakthi yoga which reflects much of my confusion (a result of incomprehension).

Recently, I posed a question why 'kAntAsakti' is a one-side affair? It is true, women in our society are entitled to worship the Lord as a husband. Meera has done this. Man cannot do so - He cannot think of God as his wife - though Bharati tried his hand at it, but did not quite succeed.

I need to read that thread. It is an interesting question. Without reading into it yet, my (admittedly impetuous) immediate answer is as per tradition, the way a wife treats her husband is a role of service - not very unlike the role many bhakthas have towards their Lord. And that service is to one whose position is unique - i.e. as in ekapatni etc. it is to one and only one who deserves it. Hence treating Lord as husband is just another way of saying service only to Lord, and that that kind of a role should in really be given to the Lord and not a mere mortal (husband). So the real husband is the Lord. That is what meera, and I believe mahadevi akka etc. practiced.

In tradition this role of service was not reciprocated the same way. So husband treating a Goddess as a wife is not that common (?to be honest i didnt know iy was there). Now of course in modern times, I think the husband <=> wife role is getting more balanced.

BTW, i wasnt necessarily saying its ok to write crass lyrics set to music. IMO, crassness will ring the same way to a person whether it is sung in sahAnA, or recited as a poem, narrated as a story or acted out (i.e. assuming the person listening knows the meaning

). Eithe he is revolted, or thinks it is ok.

I just think the thought of demanding cm being used for bhakthi alone, and not for mundane stuff (forget the extreme crass ones) is not right, and is too limiting. I hope you can see the difference.

Arun

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 15 May 2007, 01:02

Forgive me for this long post:

Here is an article that is relevant to this discussion:

Ahhh... Mi Amor!!!
http://www.narthaki.com/artindex.html under the 'featured in 2006' section

Ramaa Bharadwaj wrote:October 13, 2006

On stage was this girl..."I am 13 years old," she said, "and all I want to do is to hang out with my friends. But they dressed me up and told me that I must go meet that man again. And I didn't want to go. The last time they sent me to him, he forced me to chew betel leaves so many times (Note: In Ayurvedic medicine, betel leaves are used as a stimulant, a breath freshener and an aphrodisiac). He then held my hand and invited me to bed. When I said 'No', he got very angry. I was so frightened."

Before you get all agitated and pick-up whatever it is you pick up to run out and fight social injustice against children, let me quickly state that what you read above is not a quote from a child molestation story, but the expressive content of a Padam (a solo Bharatanatyam dance song) presented as part of a recent program in Los Angeles, California. The evening - termed "Abhinaya" - was to completely focus on "the emotive aspect, mime and narrative" elements of Indian classical dance through the rendition of Padams (love themed songs) and Javalis (also love themed but more sensual and racy).
dancing devadasi young devadasis
I had come prepared to be enthralled by an evening-long presentation of abhinaya by a renowned visiting dancer from Chennai, and had taken some young students of mine to the event. However as the evening progressed, with each representation of illicit affairs, infidelities, betrayals and the above-mentioned song, which in this day and age can only be labeled as pedophilia, I found myself experiencing a despairing sense of alienation as if I were watching an underwater theater from the other side of the glass wall. This brings me to the point of this commentary, which is to raise the question "is the traditionally accepted Bharatanatyam repertoire highly unfriendly for family viewing and for uninformed international audiences when presented without the appropriate historical, social, cultural and mystical context?" Without such references do these dances become misplaced and even insensitive to the time and place of their presentation?

In re-addressing the Padam about the 13-year-old Devadasi girl who is being sent to the bedchamber of Krishna, one wonders about the appropriateness of the theme for our times. The lyrics written by Kshetragna who lived in the 17th century might have been relevant for his days when childhood melted into womanhood at a chronologically earlier stage in life. It was obviously acceptable to place the character of a Mugdha Nayika (a young inexperienced heroine) in the age category of 13. Even as late as the early 1900s girls were married off at 9 and 10 years of age as were my grandmother and aunt. However, we live in a different society now. Today's childhood extends from birth to age 18. Sexual overture by an adult towards anyone younger is legally termed as rape at least in this country. So all that this particular song did was to conjure up in my mind images of monstrous men preying on children. This country is still steaming from the recent Foley scandal (Mark Foley is a U.S. Republican Congressman who sent sexually explicit messages to young boys under the age of 18); is still puzzled and shocked by the sexual assault and unsolved murder of Jonbenet Ramsey, a six-year-old beauty pageant winner, who was always seen dressed in glamorous costumes; is still chuckling at Michael Jackson and his "affections" towards young boys. So how sympathetic is an audience going to be towards this grown up hero who gets "angry" and scares poor little children simply because they refuse to jump into bed with him? Moreover, how does one evoke appreciation for such a theme in the non-Indian members in the audience to who even an arranged marriage seems to be a brutally backward custom?

And then there is the portrayal of women (and men) in these Javalis and Padams! How do they negotiate their dysfunctional relationships? Let's see now. While the unmarried single heroine unabashedly declares her forbidden love for her married man without an iota of care for the gossiping neighborhood ("Yarukkagilum bhayamaa - Why should I fear anyone?"), the married heroine on the other hand still sneaks around in the dead of the night while her husband is away on a business trip ("Samayamide Ra Ra - It's appropriate time, come come"); and let's not forget the heroine who catches her helpless man who out of no fault of his (say what???) is being lured by a seductress even as she stood right there watching them ("Netrandhi nerathile - Last evening by the bank of the river"); how about the one who bad-mouths the other woman as being a cheating bitch who hides many men in her bedroom ("Vagaladi - Are you swayed by her cunning words"); or the one who angrily confronts her unfaithful man who comes to her still smelling of the mistress for obviously this last fool didn't know that he must shower and get the lipstick off the collar first! ("Idai vida veyru - Do I need more proof than this"). In the meantime our hero (married or unmarried) is taking it all in stride as he rides along boldly and openly on his mythical white horse from song to song to song, going where no man has gone before, rescuing frustrated unfulfilled married women and initiating pubescent girls into the pleasures of the flesh! His name changes and face changes but "he" never does. Of course not! Why should he? After all boys will be boys! And girls? Well, girls will be grateful!

At this point I feel compelled to recall the tremendous furor that was created back in 2001 at the Bharatanatyam conference in Chicago, USA, when choreographer Chandralekha presented her highly evocative work 'Sharira - Fire/Desire.' It was a stunning portrayal of the primal feminine energy and peripheral masculine energy - Prakriti and Purusa, Shakti and Siva, Yin and Yang - coming together in exploration and creation. Chandralekha had envisioned and created the body itself as a Mandala and as a "tense center of an expanding cosmos." This sizzling presentation danced as a duet by a male and a female who never physically touch each other throughout the entire forty minutes, exuded a sense of timelessness - as if time stood still as it usually does when two people deeply in love come together. However it shocked the Indian parents out of their comfy seats. As dance critic Leela Venkatraman later noted in her Sruti magazine article, "Many parents had strong reservations about the untamed sensuality and desire expressed in the work â€¦ it caught them off guard in the presence of their children." The panel discussion the following day turned out to be a free for all with parents complaining about being "embarrassed" to have brought their children. How much more embarrassing could it have been to explain Sharira's exquisitely evocative journey through movement and energy than to explain the multiple dalliances of virile heroes who are always caught with nail marks on their chest and teeth marks on their lips, all of which are of course clearly written down in the program book as well as thoughtfully read out (for the benefit of those littlest ones who haven't learnt to read yet!). It amusingly brings to light the fact that in order for a presentation to be accepted, it must be offered in comfortably familiar cultural packages that soothes middle class Indian mentalities. As a dance scholar recently commented, "the habitual becomes acceptable because of its form, not its content."

Yes, we were all taught of the mystical interpretation of the Padams - that these amorous themes were metaphorical references to the soul longing for God. As stated by Nitin Kumar in his lovely essay 'Shiva, The Sensuous Yogi,' "Loving a wife, or someone who belongs to us, is part of what binds us to the world of forms and not of what can free us from it. This is why the mystical poets sing of illicit love, the love of what does not belong to you (parakiya) and not of what you already possess (svakiya)." Alain Danielou, the French historian and Indologist, asserts that only adulterous love free from all ties and bonds, gives us some idea of the mystic experience. From this perspective one may argue that the purpose of these padams is to delineate a mystic experience. However, in order for such delineations to work they must evoke a sympathetic and understanding response from the audience who it is presented to. In the words of a dance professor from University of California, Irvine, "Without context, and even WITH context, it's tough to communicate the sexual/spiritual material. One of the stories I saw danced at an Indian dance conference about adultery that someone was gleefully committing, rubbed us non-Indians a strange way. It's hard to get the metaphors all the time when you don't think much of the soap opera type situations." In discussing the presentations of these themes as standard fare in Bharatanatyam recitals, a young male dance student from New York had this to say: "As a person brought up here in the US, certain pieces have puzzled my American mind in terms of their content and characterization. I remember vividly my parents' flabbergasted face during an 'adult-oriented' dance pieces at a concert by a well-known visiting dancer from India." It is my opinion that when dances with mature themes do not sit appropriately with young or uninformed audiences you do not "serve" it to them anymore than you would serve champagne to minors no matter how expensive or of exquisite vintage it is.

This draws to attention the main objective of Indian dance/theater as laid down by the texts, which is to create appropriate aesthetic flavor or "Rasa" in the appropriate audience. It is not how well you express yourself but whom you express yourself to (lest you create havoc expressing yourself too well to the wrong audience!). The task therefore is not so much in selecting dances for the program, but dances for the specific audience. Even more significantly, the gestural and expressive choices made by the dancer in portraying the characters that appear through these dances become highly crucial. In going back to the padam about the Mugdha Nayika, one wonders, if the thirteen-year-old heroine of Kshetragna's days, who was obviously well initiated into the ways of the "birds and bees," would act or react with the same childlike innocence of today's eighth-grader. Besides, if the depiction of a "young inexperienced heroine" at the threshold of her first sexual encounter was the focal point in this dance, why not announce her age to be something that the audience can relate to? Is the age of thirteen really relevant to the dance except to create some kind of a charming sensationalism?

"I was there as a dance student, simply to watch and learn about abhinaya. So it was okay for me. But I wouldn't have liked for my American friends to watch these kinds of stories," said 13-year-old Medha Raj. With hundreds of immigrant parents trying to have their children imbibe Indian culture through dance classes, the audience support for these events comes largely from dance students (mostly girls) and their families. It would be worthwhile to create themes that address issues of relationships, of human interactions, of strength and endurance, and of love, life and death from perspectives other than infidelities and bed hopping.

In conclusion I wish to reiterate that the intention of this commentary is not to dismiss the Javalis and Padams as being irrelevant. They do possess an alluring quality in that they are witty and candid representations of Real happenings in the Real world, and of men and women and their emotional (and even volatile) relationships. However, there is a time to teach them, an age to learn them and a place to perform them. If performed by an adult dancer who understands the nuances, and presented for an entirely adult audience (providing appropriate historical, social context of course) these same themes would no doubt turn out to be a marvelously satirical, hilariously funny, starkly honest, intimately realistic and poetic portrayal of life as it REALLY is behind those closet doors. And every house does have a closet of some sort. Doesn't it? Ahhh! Mi Amor!

Ramaa Bharadvaj, the director of Angahara Dance Ensemble, is a choreographer, performer and writer. She has won multiple Lester Horton Dance Awards in Los Angeles for her choreography and performance. She has served on dance panels for National Endowment for the Arts, California Arts Council, and LA Cultural Affairs. In July 2000, Ramaa became the first Indian dancer in over 45 years to be featured on the cover of the prestigious Dance Magazine. Ramaa is a special dance correspondent for international dance publications and her writings have also been published by the Congress on Research in Dance and New York Foundation for the Arts. She is a recent recipient of grants from Durfee Foundation and California Traditional Music Society for creation of new works. She is selected as one of 21 exceptional South Asian women living in the US, whose lives and stories are presented in the book "Spices in the Melting Pot" released in 2005. Ramaa is on the Dance Faculty at Orange Coast College and Pomona College.

And here is the response from a Senior Dance critic of the LA times to Ramaa...

Lewis Segal wrote:The danger isn't that classical dance devotees might get angry at you for questioning the impact of a solo by a distinguished artist. No, the danger is that sexual practices that nobody sanctions any more might seem to be condoned when general dance audiences view such a solo.

Do men identify with Krishna and feel it's all right to play around because they're gods and their women are desperate for their love? That's not an interpretation that anyone would want to encourage, but without education in the proper context of such a solo, reckless male arrogance might well be given an ancient stamp of approval. As to questions about the age of consent, and sexual harassment, they can't be left to chance---but need to be dealt with in explanatory materials (or introductions) or young people could well feel they have no right to protect themselves from victimization.

I know these are extreme statements, but art is a powerful tool in social conditioning and the greater the artist, the more "reasonable" UNreasonable socio/sexual attitudes can seem.

I think contemporary artists should have complete freedom, but when traditional art (from eras and artists long dead) starts alienating people, that's the time that context MUST be explained or other, less problematic works be performed in their stead.

Anyway, bravo to you for getting people to think about the content of the art they're watching, not just the quality of the performance.

And this page has the attacks from Indian dancers to compare:
http://narthaki.com/nforum/messages/34797.html

The latter seem to have lost their perspective. I happen to agree 100% (more if possible) with Ms. Bharadwaj's point of view. The only musical arguemnt I have heard about the usefulness of padams is that they offer a distilled rAgaswarUpa...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 May 2007, 02:19

I am wondering. When there is SO MUCH to choose from, there is no need to even CONSIDER questionable pieces for singing or dancing to--Yes, if artistic freedom is what a mature artiste wants to excercise--fine (but why?--when there are umpteen padams to dance to which are rich material for expression?).

Parents' part in all this: make it clear to the teacher that you would like to know what she or he is going to teach your children every step of the way to an arangETRam....
When it comes to singing, modern day musicians are bright and are enlightened. They have access to many books and the internet for knowing the meaning of songs. Yesteryears' musicians learnt whatever their gurus sang without questioning. They might not have understood what the words stood for. Also, as Ravi points out, the musical merit of the padams and jAvaLis could be the reason why some unsavory songs were given prominence...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 15 May 2007, 02:36

yep - some of these are really hard to accept nowadays from a public display/consumption. To me, the musical significance argument is not strong enough to justify anything.

But if one were intending to say reflect life as it happens/happened somewhere/sometime in order to somehow tell a story that had a bigger meaning, and (a select audience) had been prepped and is prepared for it, perhaps maybe. Still it is out there indeed - there are ways to telling a powerful story without exposing raw details. But even there I think people take different approaches. Even in movies dealing with say a horrible crime like rape - you could show it in detail and really try to overwhelm the audience, or you could still do it with proper dialog, music, acting and get it. Some creators may think/prefer the first route, and others the second. But I find it hard to apply this as a means to justify for *any* of the themes.

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 15 May 2007, 04:26

vgvindan wrote:If a man writes poems on kAntAsakti, he should be in the category of Jayadeva, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa or tyAgarAja. (I am not aware whether Purandara Dasa has written any songs in this category.)

Yes VGV. There are quite a few songs of not only purandaradAsa but a lot of other haridAsas who have dealt with kAntAsakti.

divakar · Post by **divakar** » 15 May 2007, 10:24

I would very much appreciate if someone could transliterate these songs for me. Thanks.

Lji, i can do that. but how? that is a question. i guess you have to scan each page and mail me, that is too much of a trouble. see, if that is ok for you.

vm · Post by vm » 16 May 2007, 21:12

even i would love to have the transliteration, jus to handle these javalis and padams in my own artistic independance as a dancer. thanks
regards
mathura

savanisri · Post by **savanisri** » 28 Oct 2008, 13:08

stumbled upon this recently.
The song as taught to me gives a differnt context. It is bAlyamunando Emo bottu kattina mogudu A mogudochchi pilachedu. The meaning given by my guru was that in those days girls used to be married off in their child hood and she would stay with her parents till they attain puberty and then would be sent to her inlaws. The nayika has developed an infatuation towards lord krishna and says " The husband who has tied thali probably in my childhood, i don't remember is calling me. I will be leaving please don't forget my love."

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 02 Sep 2010, 20:30

Pappu Venugopala Rao's take on jAvaLis : http://www.hindu.com/fr/2010/08/27/stor ... 910300.htm

Pappu Venugopala Rao wrote:â€œIt is hypocritical and prudish to attribute bhakti bhaava to javalis.â€

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 02 Sep 2010, 20:40

I did not realize that Sri MV composed jAvaLis

Praveen Kumar wrote:For the Bangalore-based student of Prof. CVC, choosing from the vast repertoire of Mysore Vasudevachar posed quite a challenge. â€œIt was a great trip down music lane. I discovered that the composer had actually penned a couple of javalis with a hero in mind. So, I chose â€˜Prematho Naatho Mataladavae' in Kanada. I am also presenting kirtana in Kamalamanohari and a tillana in Suddhasalavi.

Lji - do you have a list of Sri MV's jAvaLis? Reference: http://www.hindu.com/fr/2010/08/27/stor ... 920100.htm

lsr · Post by **lsr** » 13 Feb 2021, 00:38

I am in a dilemma regarding teaching my students such padams and javalis. I have stayed away from them until now but these are kind of expected and considered compulsory when going for auditions for certifications and exams. I would appreciate if you could let me know of padams or javalis that are written for younger children without reference to what is discussed in this thread.

rasikas.org

Lyrics & meaning- Mogudochi

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