Translation requests by RSR

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 14 Oct 2016, 21:47

I need the meaning in English ( rough translation atleast, but word by word meaning preferable)
for Purandharadasa kruthi 'Naneke Badavanu' by MS. in Behag ragam. The song audio, english transliteration, kanndam script song ..etc have been given in my page. If I get English translation, I can then translate into tamil. and share with my tamil friends. Members .. who know both kannadam and thamizh, can give thamizh translation directly too. My mail id is: [email protected] and the song is to be found at
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... e-badavanu

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 14 Oct 2016, 22:28

Here you are, RSR, and I am NOT an expert at all:
nAnEke baDavanu = Why am I poor
nAnEke paradEshi = why am I a stranger (one who’s lost in a strange land)
srInidhE hari = Oh Srinidhi (one who encompasses Sri=Lakshmi=also all auspiciousness)
enage =For me/mysake
nIniruva tanaka =As long as you are there

vidye heLuvanIne = You are the one who teaches me knowledge
buddhi kalisuva nIne – You are the one who imparts me wisdom/discrimination
uddhArakarta = You are my saviour
mama svAmi nIne = My Lord you are!
muddu siri purandara viTThala + Oh adorable/dear Sri Purandara Vitthala!
ninnaDi mEle = at your feet
biddukonDiruva = as I am surrendered/fallen
enakEtara bhayavO = Fear of what is my lot? (ie there’s nothing for me to fear!)

All the questions are rhetorical, and imply that there is no poverty, no misery in a strange land, no fear, for one who is surrendered to the Lord, so that the Lord is schooling him, counselling him, protecting him always.

(Bhagavadgita 9.22
ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate
teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham)

mukta · Post by **mukta** » 14 Oct 2016, 22:43

Nice translation Rsachi ji.

I found this on the net.

The complete song is here.

rAga: muKAri/AnaMdabhairavi
tALa: JaMpe
racane: shrI puraMdaradAsaru

nAnEke baDavanu nAnEke paradEshi
shrInidhE hari enage nIniruva tanaka /pa/

puTTisida tAyi taMde iShTa mitranu nIne
aShTa baMdhuvu sarva baLaga nIne
peTTigeyoLagina aShTAbharaNa nIne
shrEShTha mUruti kRuShNa nIniruva tanaka /1/

oDa huTTidava nIne oDaligAkuva nIne
uDalu hodiyalu vastra koDuvava nIne
maDadi makkaLanella kaDehAyisuva nIne
biDade salahuva oDeya nIniruva tanaka /2/

vidye hELuvava nIne buddhi kalisuvava nIne
uddhAra karta mama svAmi nIne
muddu siri puraMdara viThThalaninnaDi mEle
biddu koMDiruva enagEtara bhayavO /3/

Meaning of the song:

how can I (nAnEke) be a poor (baDavano) and destitute (paradEshi)
until (nIniruvatanaka) You (Shrinidhe Hari) are there to protect me

you are (nIne) the father/mother (taMde tAyi) who made me to born (puTTisida)
you are (nIne) the best (iShTa) friend (mitranu) and
you are (nIne) my frineds/relatives (aShTa baMdhuvu sarva baLaga)
you are (nIne) my ornaments/jewels (aShTAbharaNa) in the box (peTTigeyoLagina)
kRuShNa, Supreme God (shrEShTha mUruti),
I am safe until (nIniruva tanaka) you protect me

you are (nIne) my brother/sister (oDahuTTidava)
you are (nIne) the one who feeds (oDaligAkuva) me
you are (nIne) the one who gives (koDuvava)
clothes (vastra) to wear (uDalu)/wrap around (hodeyalu)
you are (nIne) the one who gives salvation (kaDehAyisuvava)
to wife (maDadi)/children (makkaLanella)
you are (nIne) the Master (oDeya) who protects (salahuva)
me without forgetting/leaving (biDade)

you are (nIne) the one who teach (vidye hELuvava)
me to become clever (buddi kalisuvava)
you are (nIne) my (mama) Master (svAmi)
who leads (uddArakarta) me towards progress
Why I should have (enagEtara) fear (bhayavo)
when I am lying (biddukoMDiruva) at your feet (nninaDimEle)
Shri Purandara vittala (muddu siri puraMdara viThThala)

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 14 Oct 2016, 23:21

Mukta-ji
Thank you.
Sadly, whoever did that translation, with all respect, I feel has not got the essence of words like buddhi... It is not cleverness in this context. (Buddhiyoga is a very cardinal concept in Bhagavadgita. And Purandaradasa was a great master of Shastras).
Also some words are wrongly spelt... oDaligAkuva is actually oDalig-hAkuva (h is very important)..
Not to undermine such well-meaning efforts

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 15 Oct 2016, 09:44

Sachi I totally agree with you. Not only are the kannaDA words incorrectly interpreted, but the English ones used are not appropriate. Take nIniruva tanakE - your interpretation is correct; "until you're there" appears incongruous in this context.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 15 Oct 2016, 09:58

Beloved Sirs, (Sachi Muktha who has supplied English translation from the web) Thank you very much. ( As I dont know Kannadam, I was wont to understand the first few lines as 'I am a scoundrel, I am a vagabond!"). ! With your kind permission, I am adding both the translations in my page. and God willing, will attempt a tamil (liberal) translation in a day or two. I am reminded of Gita lines 'Vidhya Vinaya Sampanno'... on reading your prompt replies.
Pranams.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 15 Oct 2016, 10:12

just a suggestion... nine is likely to be read as number nine. Frankly that is how I read it in first attempt and was puzzled. I would have written it as 'niney' . .If I give the thamizh translation in thamizh letters, can you please correct and verify?

Sreeni Rajarao · Post by **Sreeni Rajarao** » 15 Oct 2016, 19:33

Since we are all learning here, let's learn to say it right: it is kannaDa, not kannadam or kannaDA.

Thank You!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 15 Oct 2016, 21:47

Sreeni thanks!

aaaaabbbbb · Post by **aaaaabbbbb** » 15 Oct 2016, 22:11

Sreeni avarE,

ಚಿನ್ನದಂತಹ ಮಾತು.

words worth their weight in gold.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 15 Oct 2016, 22:18

Rsachi & Mukthaji...-> Thanks to your kind help, I have just now managed to translate into Thamizh . I have provided transliteration of my thamizh translation. Learned members may kindly correct me if there are serious errors.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... vanu?pli=1

( note: I do the transliteration manually) . This also is one of the standard methods.
For thamizh lyrics , visit the page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sreedhevi manaalanae !
enakkaaka nee irukkaiyil
naan eppadi aezhaiyaaga, naadodiyaaga
irukka mudiyum?

thanthaiyum thaayum neeyae
enathu uyir nanbanum neeyae
enathu sakala uravinarum neeyae
sreshta moorthi! krushnaa!
nee ennaik kaappaatrukaiyil
enathu paathukaappirku enna kurai?

neethaan enathu sahodharan
neethaan enakku unavalippavan
neethaan enakku vasthram koduppavan
enakkum kudumbatthiurkum
moksham tharupavan.
endrum ennai maravaamal kaappatrubavan

nee enakk gyaanam thanthaay
nee enakku vivekam thanthaay
neeyae enathu rakshakan
neeye enathu prabhu!

manohara puranthara vittala !
unathu thiruvadiyaich charan adainthaen
pinnar enakkenna bayam?
ethaippatriyum catrum acchamillai

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Oct 2016, 04:45

cinnatana nammallira bEkE--
cinnada dAsara mAtu kELuta?

ellarigilli uNTu sthaLa--
ellaru samavembO bhAvavu

bandhu jana bhagavantana
chandada drushTiyali nAvu

onderaDE namma snEhada varushagaLu?
sundara sangIta vrukshada neraLali?

Rusty is my kannaDa. Feel free to correct the above...

Revised first two lines, after aaaaabbbbb's suggestion to use the word saNNatana (See the following two posts:

saNNatana nammallira bEkE?
haNNanta dAsara mAtu kELuta

aaaaabbbbb · Post by **aaaaabbbbb** » 16 Oct 2016, 05:43

arasi ji

may I suggest the word 'saNNatana'

to replace 'cinnatana'?

Lovely composition.

i

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Oct 2016, 07:15

Thanks!

How about: saNNatana nammallirabEkE
haNNanta dAsara mAtu kELuta ??

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 16 Oct 2016, 07:39

RSR and Arasi,
Congrats. Great way to internalise the wonderful lyrics of our great composers.
This is the process called nidhi-dhyaasana in Samskrita.

aaaaabbbbb · Post by **aaaaabbbbb** » 16 Oct 2016, 07:53

Arasi ji,

Just fantastic.

It fits perfectly.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Oct 2016, 09:05

Sachi,
A tall order, I'm afraid. pUrNa SravaNakkE innu bandilla svAmi!

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 13:05

arasi...as i dont know kannadam, it is of no use to me.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 13:10

Sreeni Rajarao, sankar, aaaaabbbbb-> 'kannadam' is approved word for the language. ( much better than kanarese etc) Barathis speaks of 'kannadar oddiyarodu'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 13:15

arasi 's revision... of the lyric. The original lyric has been given in kannada lipi. in my page. ..Conversation among members in transliterated language is objectionable. Just because the script is in english, it does not follow every one can understand. I understand, Americans frown upon the habit of tamils there who converse among themselves though there are foreigners in the group. Their grouse is that for all that they know, they are exchanging jokes and foul words among themselves.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 16 Oct 2016, 13:57

Sreeni Rajarao wrote:Since we are all learning here, let's learn to say it right: it is kannaDa, not kannadam or kannaDA.

Thanks !

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 14:08

My attempt is to take famous Kannadam, Telugu, Marathi, Bengali, Hindi ,Sanskrit songs rendered by Smt.MS to people who do not know any other language except their mother tongue Thamizh and a bit of English. ( The focus is only on songs by MS mostly recorded music). .. Smt.MS gave an LP record around 1970 , as National Integration record. There were 11 songs there in 11 languages ( Kannadam Telugu, Thamizh, Malayalam, Marathi, Gujarathi, Bengali, Hindi, Sanskrit , Punjabi and Urdu. ) ...
http://bolingo69.blogspot.in/2011/02/ms ... in-10.html
The Kannadam song rendered by her is 'Yadhuvamsa Thilaka' . It is in Behag ragam. I understand ( not sure) that the song occurs in D.V.Gundappa's work 'Antahpura Geete'. . I am trying to create a page each for these 11 songs of the LP record, one page for each song.. which will give audio, lyrics in the original language of the poem, transliteration in english ( devanagari will be better), a rough translation of the meaning, some additional information about the creator of the poem and such. ... Primarily the interest is in the music and ragam. but sometimes, understanding the meaning may enhance the experience. .. The song is given as audio (mp4 ) in my page
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... a-kannadam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._V._Gundappa

Can the rasikas help me in getting lyrics, meaning ?

Sreeni Rajarao · Post by **Sreeni Rajarao** » 16 Oct 2016, 15:31

Quoting from the above post: some additional information about the creator of the poem

Please see this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10528&p=259702&hil ... ha#p259702

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 16:30

->Srini Rajarao-> #19 was my post nearly one year back. I do not want details about the author. I need the lyrics.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 16 Oct 2016, 17:42

RSR: If you are looking for any lyrics please post your request(s) in the Sahitya & Identification requests thread. The lyrics are here:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11743&p=148483&hil ... sa#p148483

aaaaabbbbb · Post by **aaaaabbbbb** » 16 Oct 2016, 18:29

Slightly different from the lyrics

mentioned in post#4

yaduvamsha tilakana vEsha vidEne
madirAkShi murali nAda vidEne
[yaduvamsha]
muraLI gAna vidEne taralApAngavadEne
smara sambhramAnanda smaraNe idEne
[yaduvamsha]
koLalanUdute namma manadi pavvaLisida
nalavolavellava keraLisi kuNisi
puLakAnkura gaLa nAgisi mayya mareyisi
nalivi gAyava mAyadoLaguTTadEne
[yaduvamsha]

AsegaLeShTO nirASegaLinneShTO
rOSha duhkha prEmOtsAhangaLeShTO
sAsira suLigALi bIsida nammedeyanu
ghAsi goLise cenna kEshava nolivane
[yaduvamsha]

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 20:21

->aaaaabbbbb -> Sir, Thank you . I think, your lyrics correspond to what MS sang as I remember.
Let me reiterate.. my aim is to present the meaning of the song primarily. So, kindly provide a rough translation in English. 2) Why not add a devanagari version of the lyrics? it will be easier for rasikas all over the Hindi belt. 3) I have already placed your version in my page. and am awaiting response to my suggestions. If I get English translation, I can them translate that into thamizh.
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... a-kannadam
A sample of what I want the page to be ultimately is given below
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... ha-lakshmi

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 20:23

mr.bala ...see #19

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 16 Oct 2016, 21:04

aaaaabbbbb happens to be a lady.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 22:16

Lakshman-> OK. So let it be read as Sir/Madam. .. Such one liners , i hope dont count as posts.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 16 Oct 2016, 23:55

Lakshman wrote:aaaaabbbbb happens to be a lady.

For some reason, a psedonym has been chosen by the person. Are you not violating the privacy? It hardly matters here WHO the person is. It should not.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 17 Oct 2016, 00:06

RSR wrote:Sreeni Rajarao, sankar, aaaaabbbbb-> 'kannadam' is approved word for the language. ( much better than kanarese etc) Barathis speaks of 'kannadar oddiyarodu'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As this forum uses English, let me enumerate a few English words using d. as it is spoken.
1) day, daily, danger, dull, dusk, due, darkness,doubtful, dumb, drivel, dry, delight,
2) mundane, pending, pretending, gender, tender, fend, heart-rending, tendency, rundown etc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May I point out that there are many schemes of transliteration?
If you make too much of your harvard method, you may even forget writing decent English.
Sometimes, I think, C-Language rules should apply. All this mixing of Capital letters and lower case makes the page look ugly.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Oct 2016, 00:16

RSR,
A few things need to be clarified.

1: A member here can use his/her name as ID, or a pseudonym. Just skim through the posts and find some exotic names as well.

2: Both your threads (this one and the one on nAnEkE baDavanu) belong in the SAHITYAgroup of threads.

3: Banter we do, since we have grown together as rasikAs, and have made friends here.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 17 Oct 2016, 06:58

mod:
This may be shifted to "Sahitya & identification requests."

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 17 Oct 2016, 06:59

mod:
This may be moved to "Sahitya & identification requests."

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 17 Oct 2016, 12:18

To arasi, Rsachi and company....,I am just wondering if the transliteration is being altered or the original lyric by Purandharadasa himself!. If it is the latter, it is inexcusable blasphemy. ....

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 17 Oct 2016, 19:08

arasi wrote:RSR,
A few things need to be clarified.

1: A member here can use his/her name as ID, or a pseudonym. Just skim through the posts and find some exotic names as well.

2: Both your threads (this one and the one on nAnEkE baDavanu) belong in the SAHITYAgroup of threads.

3: Banter we do, since we have grown together as rasikAs, and have made friends here.

That is member's option. Not your option to reveal their identity...

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 17 Oct 2016, 21:47

RSR wrote:....Why not add a devanagari version of the lyrics? it will be easier for rasikas all over the Hindi belt.

RSR,
Here is the Devanagari version of the kRti. This has been approved by aaaaabbbbb -

यदुवंश तिलकन वेश विदेनॆ
मदिराक्षि मुरळि नाद विदेनॆ [यदुवंश]

मुरळी गान विदेनॆ तरलापाङ्गवदेनॆ
स्मर सम्भ्रमानन्द स्मरणॆ इदेनॆ [यदुवंश]

कॊळलनूदुतॆ नम्म मनदि पव्वळिसिद
नलवॊलवॆल्लव कॆरळिसि कुणिसि
पुळकाङ्कुर गळ नागिसि मय्य मरॆयिसि
नलिवि गायव मायदॊळगुट्टदेनॆ [यदुवंश]

आसॆगळॆष्टो निराशॆगळिन्नॆष्टो
रोष दुःख प्रेमोत्साहङ्गळॆष्टो
सासिर सुळिगाळि बीसिद नम्मॆदॆयनु
घासि गॊळिसॆ चॆन्न केशव नॊलिवनॆ [यदुवंश]

Please differentiate between 'e' 'E', 'o' 'O' (ऎ ए ऒ ओ) - Devanagari (and Hindi) do not have short vowels.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 18 Oct 2016, 13:08

- > vgovindan -> Excellent Sir. Thank you very much. ....I am placing the devanagari version in the web-page for the song with due ack.. to you. ...
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... a-kannadam
Now, if you read the first post by me, I have mentioneda request for translation also ( a rough translation or word-by-word) of the song in English or Thamizh. May I have your help?...and verification of the thamizh (liberal) translation (by me after it is done)?

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 18 Oct 2016, 13:38

Can any one help by giving the meaning ( not lyrics) of MS bajan ( 1947) 'Maiyn Nirguniya' ? Any additional information about the creator of the bajan ( Dr.KamaldasGuptha of Calcutta... who was in charge of orchestration for Sevasadhan and Sakuthalai..I am told).. would be most welcome. ( browser should be flash-enabled)
audio given in
https://sites.google.com/site/rsrtrials ... ynirguniya
( please allow a few seconds for the audio to get loaded)

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 18 Oct 2016, 15:13

RSR Sir,
I heard the song a couple of times. I know enough Hindi to understand the meaning quite well, but may not be of help in your exact translation efforts.

For whatever it is worth, here is the meaning I gleaned:

This is the lament/song of a woman devotee deeply in love with the Lord (exact mood of Meera).

She says:

I am without merit (=qualification as a jnani),
I know not what is the meritorious path to the Lord,
For I am just like a beggar in front of a rich man,
Extending my alm-seeking hand.

My dreams of youth, my youthful beauty,
Are now lost, and my story is full of pain of longing.
I am no longer swayed by rosy promises,
I am willing to be a mere flower cast at my Lord's feet.

Desperate, I wandered for long, in wilderness,
Becoming a mendicant seeking my Lord's darshan,
What hardships have I endured in my mind,
How sleepless are my eyes!

Now, if He so desires, He can look me in the eye, accepting me,
Or, if He so desires, He may cast me off from memory.
He may make me happy, or He may make me cry,
I really don't care anymore, I am so drunk with His love!

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 18 Oct 2016, 16:21

RSR/RSachi, Thanks for bringing this bhajan to my notice. Never heard this so far. Was it from any film?

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 18 Oct 2016, 19:46

CRama wrote: ... Was it from any film?

No. This is not a film song.

The Gramophone Company Ltd, Dum Dum, India
HMV 78 RPM Record
Hindi Bhajan
No.N 16464
"main nirguniyA gun nAhIM jAnI"
By Kokilkanthi M.S. Subbulakshmi

http://ngh.co.in/m-s-subbulakshmi-bhajan-n-16464.html

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 18 Oct 2016, 21:32

Respected Sirs Rsachi and Prathyakshan Bala. ..Thank you very much. This is nice translation. It is not a Meera bajan however. It may be a Ram bajan . in the tradition of Thulasidas.. I had this 78 rpm record in my collection along with all the songs of Hindi Meera. In those decades ( 1950-1960) , this song used to be heard in AIR frequently . The reverse side of that 'plate' contained 'Rama Milan ke'. Vasantha Memorial blog on MS says that it was Kamaldas Guptha , a noted Bengali poet, composer and everything(!) who taught MS the Rama Milan ke bajan. It is then very likely that Miyn Nir Guniya also is his companion composition. What matters to music lovers like us, is the absolutely ravishing pace and glide of ectstaic singing by MS. and the way she ends the last word floating in the air. .
My impression is that true saints can be in bliss even while berating themselves. ( will it not apply to Purandharadasa, Thyagaraja) ?) I got a tentative hindi transcription from our beloved Lakshman Rage Sir but some other person complained that there were errors. Likely, in any transcription work done by a non-native speaker of the language. ( MS and Sadhasivam had the great opportunity to mix with some of the greatest minds of Bengal during their visit and stay at Calcutta in 1940 for filming Savithri. and Kamaldas Guptha was one among them. Nor was he a stranger to Tamil world as he had a role in scoring the music and orchestration of Sakunthalai along with Thuraiyoor Rajagopala Sarma. ( if I am right)
I will place your wonderful translation in my page tonight with due ack ( ' shoving off responsibilty.'.'passing the buck.'...) now, seriously.. You cannot understand how grateful I am to you. ).
Kindly see
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... lan-ke-aaj

and bless me with the translation of that song also. ( Doubtless you have heard Thyagaraja's 'Naama Kusuma' sung by Alathoor. ..Likewise, what more can be of greater joy to listen, understand but not sing... we can never recapture that voice and spirit. )/ Younger musicians will do well to avoid trying to sing the classics of veterans of the Golden era. In a separate post I will talk about 'Janakiramanaa' of DKP).

Maiyn Nir Guniya is here
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... -guna-nahi

I will edit the page tonight to include your great translation.

A Thousand Pranamas.
( and kindly address me as RSR only).

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 18 Oct 2016, 21:32

Respected Sirs Rsachi and Prathyakshan Bala. ..Thank you very much. This is nice translation. It is not a Meera bajan however. It may be a Ram bajan . in the tradition of Thulasidas.. I had this 78 rpm record in my collection along with all the songs of Hindi Meera. In those decades ( 1950-1960) , this song used to be heard in AIR frequently . The reverse side of that 'plate' contained 'Rama Milan ke'. Vasantha Memorial blog on MS says that it was Kamaldas Guptha , a noted Bengali poet, composer and everything(!) who taught MS the Rama Milan ke bajan. It is then very likely that Miyn Nir Guniya also is his companion composition. What matters to music lovers like us, is the absolutely ravishing pace and glide of ectstaic singing by MS. and the way she ends the last word floating in the air. .
My impression is that true saints can be in bliss even while berating themselves. ( will it not apply to Purandharadasa, Thyagaraja) ?) I got a tentative hindi transcription from our beloved Lakshman Rage Sir but some other person complained that there were errors. Likely, in any transcription work done by a non-native speaker of the language. ( MS and Sadhasivam had the great opportunity to mix with some of the greatest minds of Bengal during their visit and stay at Calcutta in 1940 for filming Savithri. and Kamaldas Guptha was one among them. Nor was he a stranger to Tamil world as he had a role in scoring the music and orchestration of Sakunthalai along with Thuraiyoor Rajagopala Sarma. ( if I am right)
I will place your wonderful translation in my page tonight with due ack ( ' shoving off responsibilty.'.'passing the buck.'...) now, seriously.. You cannot understand how grateful I am to you. ).
Kindly see
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... lan-ke-aaj

and bless me with the translation of that song also. ( Doubtless you have heard Thyagaraja's 'Naama Kusuma' sung by Alathoor. ..Likewise, what more can be of greater joy to listen, understand but not sing... we can never recapture that voice and spirit. )/ Younger musicians will do well to avoid trying to sing the classics of veterans of the Golden era. In a separate post I will talk about 'Janakiramanaa' of DKP).

Maiyn Nir Guniya is here
https://sites.google.com/site/homage2ms ... -guna-nahi

I will edit the page tonight to include your great translation.

A Thousand Pranamas.
( and kindly address me as RSR only).

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 18 Oct 2016, 21:47

RSR sir,
My research shows that this bhajan is a combination of words from a few shabad kIrtans. Shabad kirtans, sung also in Gurdwaras, are bhajans referring to God as a beloved (male), and Meera, Kabir, Nanak and many others have sung in this vein. It does not seem to be about Rama, as I have not come across such sentiments expressed about Rama.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 18 Oct 2016, 21:57

RSachi Sir, You may be right. Let us check after seeing the other song 'Rama Milan ke'. .As you say, it may be a composition by Kamaldas Guptha as a Meera Bajan ( he got his doctorate for his research on Saint Meera Bai from Benares university "He earned his Doctorate in Music from Benaras Hindu University in 1943 for his work on Mira Bai, the composer and singer of Bhajans."...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Dasgupta
In 1935 Kamal Dasgupta joined the Gramophone Company of India as a music director. During his term there, he developed a close association with Kazi Nazrul Islam and composed the music for almost four hundred of his songs. The gramophone records for which Kamal Dasgupta composed music were very popular in the 1950s
http://cinemacorridor.blogspot.in/2009/ ... gupta.html
a nice blog about him by Nivedhitha Ramakrishnan

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 18 Oct 2016, 23:24

Sir,
I am NOT saying this is a Meera bhajan. But the sentiments described are uncannily like that of Meera. We have Akka Mahadevi in the Shiva Sharana sampradaya who went through a similar life. So nothing unique there.

It is for me the lament of a forlorn God-lover. You will find similar sentiments in many Tamil/Telugu virahOtkanThita nAyikA pieces.
The side B of the record could have no connection with the meaning or context of the song on side A, unless we dig up some common theme that Gupta-ji emphasized in the record.

For me again, the lyrics are important, but how beautifully MSS has rendered the song! Thanks for bringing it up!

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 18 Oct 2016, 23:37

I am rather surprised at the use of the word 'nirguNi'. Then I heard some Sabad of Gurbani. There also the same word is used to mean same - 'no merits'. No wonder, antipodes look alike.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 18 Oct 2016, 23:57

VG,

nirguNi is a word to describe either of two different things depending on the context.
Meaning 1 :
Sikhism, Kabir etc. describe a formless God, also described as nirguNa brahman. Sikhs don't have an image of God, they worship their book, Granth sahib. Kabir's bhajans are often described as Nirguni bhajans as popularised by Kumar gandharva.
Meaning 2
The second meaning describes the humility of the devotee who describes himself/herself as unworthy or lacking merit. Such a devotee may very well be worshipping a saguNa brahman!