usage of modern instruments spoils the melody of carnatic so

rameshviyer · Post by **rameshviyer** » 25 Jun 2007, 22:36

hi all,

the usage of modern instruments spoils the melody of the carnatic songs i feel to reach the audience the songs sung my musicians must be using mic in order to reach the audience and sometimes there is usage of lare modern instruments were the sahitya and swarams sung by carnatic musicians overrules.
i feel the beats of mridangam, playing in violin should have be very low whereas the clarity of the carnatic singer should be more exposing the sahityam and swarams

rgds
ramesh

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 27 Jun 2007, 07:07

Please proof read before sending your message. Mridangam and violin are NOT NEW MODERN instruments in carnatic music ! If you are talking about the high volume of accompanying instruments subduing the vocal artist, I cannot agree more. Yes, at times you can hear only the mridangam. The problem is in amplification demanded by some accompanists, who happen to be much senior to the vocalist ! Some vocalists are also guilty of swallowing words.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Jun 2007, 07:56

There is a great deal of discussion here on how the soundman and/or his equipment can ruin a concert. Inapropriate and ill-informed demands from artists, however senior, certainly do not help.

rameshviyer, I suggest you find one of those threads, where you may agree with much that has been said.

If you can tell us that your birthdate is in, what, 17-hundred and something (?) then we might see your personal viewpoint that the violin is 'modern', but it is certainly not loud, and is often the victim of the mentioned sound men.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 27 Jun 2007, 08:31

And sometimes the mrudangist?!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Jun 2007, 23:14

Maybe... but turn off the mikes and see, then, if the mridangist can drown out the violin.

I'm sure that a combination of weak violinist and powerful mridangist, it can hapen, but the mridangam is one of the gentler of percussion instruments.

The ability to produce the necessary volume from an instrument seems to me to be part of the skill of playing it.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Jun 2007, 00:57

Then, why is it Nick, that some veteran or other whose playing impressed me in earlier years is not agreeable to me now, unless I use ear plugs? I put it down to noise. All the more a pity because I have enjoyed his playing (always as a lay person, of course). I do not know enough about layA, but I can say this much that I cannot hear through all that noise his expertise and fine playing. Another thing about noisy playing (I mean by that the turned up volume). With my muffling the noise while he plays solo, it is bearable. When he 'accompanies' some fine singing or playing, he is in the way. As you know, this topic would go on for ever, until gentle
sound becomes fashionable...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Jun 2007, 12:21

I think you have to consider all the stuff that has been said about comfortable sound levels for the audience, lack of proper monitor speakers for the musicians, and the general state of sound engineering in carnatic concerts.

We might be able to blame the musicians for competing in the turn-me-up stakes, but if the engineer/organisers did their job properly (which includes ignoring the artists' requests where appropriate, or changing monitor levels only) the situation would not arise ---- excepting, maybe, the occasional hopeless ego case.

For the ego cases, my only suggestion is to let the market rule: avoid their concerts!

As we have had a very recent thread on this, I will rant no further on the topic

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 28 Jun 2007, 20:22

That is our refrain, isn't it?

I think this one is an 'ego case'. Again, a problem arises: I like to listen to the vocalist and the violinist--upa pakka vAdyam too, in some cases. What do I do?

The refrain goes round and round...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 29 Jun 2007, 00:30

And, even on studio-recorded CDs, the poor ghatam player may be lost completely!

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 29 Jun 2007, 11:23

The point Rameshiyer raised was about too many instruments on stage drowning the beauty of the song, lyrics, meanings etc etc. that brings us the question of being a sensitive accompanist and an insensitive one. That is all. I believe in these two crieteria be it violinist or mridangist or a upapakkavadya artiste (or even vocalists who are sometimes grossly insensitive to the nuances of accompaniment-but that is not the issue here as we are talking about the loudness of the accompaniment and also too many instruments). A sensitive accompanist caters to the needs of the vocalist and he never strays away from the comfort levels of the vocalist. there is something called "Stage Volume" which the audience may not be aware and what they hear is different from what the artiste hears. It may be due to many factors like monitors and different set of volume levels at different places in the auditorium and poor balancing, poor quality of mikes or poor workmen behind the console and so on and so forth. All these factors should be taken into consideration by the artistes and at the same time they should not bother about it too. I feel the art will be better expressed if the artiste concentrates on what is happening on the stage at the moment instead of brooding over other technical snags. If the mikes are not alright, many a times, i have seen audience themselves ask the organisers to adjust and tune the mikes to certain comfort levels. Moreover the role of the accompanists should never be undermined as they are pivotal to the success of the concert (and also its failure to some extent). Hence the accompanist plays a vital role in the enhancement of the concert. May be ramesh iyer would have had a few bad experiences with the accompanists or may be he would hv gone to a place where the mike system were poor. All these are conjectures only. The proper perspective from the audience should be to see the artistes as performers with many hurdles (especially the accompanists) and the artistes should see the audience as knowledgeable and give out their best performance every time without bothering too much about extraneous activities other than only art and music.

J.Balaji

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 29 Jun 2007, 14:12

Dear brother-member, rameshviyer, I do not feel anything wrong in the usage of modern instruments in getting the melody of Carnatic songs spoiled. For any thing there are some established limits not to go beyond to make others feel convenient to relish it. But, in operation, things have adverse effects if they are not handled by the competitive persons or if they are mishandled by uncompetitive persons. Mostly, the operators of the amplifiers who are very well nicknamed after â€˜mike-asuras=mikasurasâ€™, having no knowledge of the musical sensitivity at all, mis-handle the amplifier and make them produce all others sounds than soothing music or otherwise they are capable of making even the best music non-musical. All these unwanted things happen due to the interference of the â€˜mikasurasâ€™ but not the modern instruments. I earnestly feel that the mike is not meant for merely increasing the volume of music but the sensitivity of music. amsharma.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 29 Jun 2007, 20:31

I earnestly feel that the mike is not meant for merely increasing the volume of music but the sensitivity of music.

Yes! Indeed! Perfectly put.

The mics and the amplifiers are there so that we can hear the music properly --- not to make it loud.