Notations vs Recordings

[raguanu]

Assuming most music classes are recorded (audio/video) nowadays, do notations still play any important role in teaching and learning music?

I see people actively exchanging notations here in this forum. On the other hand, I've seen some music classes that rarely involve any notation. While both the mediums have their own merits and drawbacks, I'm curious to know whether the usage of notation is declining or not.

So,

• Do you use notations in your class? Could be any type of notation--commercially available printed book, or dictated to students during class, or some handwritten notation given to students to copy.
• How important is the notation of the varnam/kriti for you while you learn the item? Do you learn the item mainly by going through the notation, or you don't need the notation at all?
• If you have the class recording and notation of the item, which one would you use for practice at home?

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
___________________________________
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Pocket Shruti Box: Carnatic Tambura | Sādhakam: Carnatic Swara Gnanam Practice | Shruti Carnatic Tuner

[nadhasudha]

Assuming most music classes are recorded (audio/video) nowadays, do notations still play any important role in teaching and learning music?

I see people actively exchanging notations here in this forum. On the other hand, I've seen some music classes that rarely involve any notation. While both the mediums have their own merits and drawbacks, I'm curious to know whether the usage of notation is declining or not.

So,

• Do you use notations in your class? Could be any type of notation--commercially available printed book, or dictated to students during class, or some handwritten notation given to students to copy.
• How important is the notation of the varnam/kriti for you while you learn the item? Do you learn the item mainly by going through the notation, or you don't need the notation at all?
• If you have the class recording and notation of the item, which one would you use for practice at home?

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
___________________________________
© Kuyil | Apps Crafted for Carnatic
Pocket Shruti Box: Carnatic Tambura | Sādhakam: Carnatic Swara Gnanam Practice | Shruti Carnatic Tuner

I am a perennial learner and speak from that perspective. IMHO, Writing notations for songs is absolutely necessary because that is the way we can be absolutely sure we are singing it the correct way. Even for songs that I learn from recordings, I write my own notation. Writing notation forces the student to get the details of taalam and melody absolutely correct and in that way the time invested upfront makes the learning of the krithi easier. I also find that, the songs I notate stick in my memory for a long time and I am able to quickly recall the song even if I have not revisited the song recently during my practice sessions.

Having said that, not everything can be notated especially with gamakams for which learning directly from a guru and then getting it corrected is the right way to go.

[vasanthakokilam]

I am terrible at transcribing melody to notes. But I totally get the need for this. We had talked about this before elsewhere in this forum.

I recently found this application called AnthemScore: https://www.lunaverus.com

It is pretty good at drawing the melodic contour of a recording. It uses the western notation so it takes some effort to translate to Sargam notation once the Kattai is determined. But the contour determination is very good which helps with gamakams.

[SrinathK]

Both are needed. Many old versions of ragas and songs are only surviving today because of notations. Otherwise we would have lost half of our ragas, an entire sampradAya and then some.

Handwritten notations with symbols to show the frequency variation are by far the best (I have done it for some of my own transcriptions) for gamakas. Where notations are invaluable is that they clarify important details of tAla and eDuppu, something that is not obvious in audio recordings (although video recordings can overcome that handicap). I always insist that one make their own notations because the understanding will be of a totally different level than from buying any book out there.

And yet after a point, the fluid nature of the phrasings is easier to grasp directly by hearing and words and symbols hit their limits. That's where the recordings help. One can learn from a recording and then notate it.

The ability to hear gamakas is the most important thing because every time you sing or play a line, those micro phrases will be slightly different every time - not to mention the improvised parts that must be grasped and followed instantly. They can be as different as handwriting sometimes between musicians - even those who've learnt from the same guru and even in the same class. Recordings can help with understanding these intangibles.

Recordings have another very important role - they've helped stabilize Carnatic Music compositions and ragas from the rampant changes that they were subject to over time. Therefore you will hardly find any changes in the important phrases of known ragas from the 1950s onwards - before that however it was another story.

Over time one's very idea of the phrases of a composition can change due to exposure to multiple styles of various musicians, and also due to one's own musical ideas - something especially prevalent now more than ever. That's where the notebook is there to remind you which part of the composition is the original, and which is the improvised part.

Ultimately though, over reliance on notes or recordings is bad for strengthening memory. You learn best when your full attention is in the live moment and pay attention to your forgetting curve.

However with repertoires getting as big as they are now, always preserve those notes and recordings!

[raguanu]

Thanks for the responses.

Writing notation forces the student to get the details of taalam and ...

Exactly! Especially the thalam part. In a class one usually focuses on small chunks of melody, but these chunks need to be connected and arranged in proper places in the thalam. It's easy to do that if you have the notation at hand (or willing to write your own).

@vasanthakokilam Interesting approach. I too have analyzed a few recordings with Sonic Visualiser, but only to zoom into some specific sangathis and understand the gamakam.

I totally agree with @SrinathK. Both notation and recordings are excellent tools and they complement each other. I too have written my own scores for improved clarity and to have some space above notes to scribble about gamakams.

I'm getting the sense of different personal approaches by those who are trying to learn (or continue to learn) on their own with available resources. I'm still wondering about what happens in regular music classes. In olden days when people didn't usually record the classes, writing down the the lesson or buying a printed book suggested by the teacher were very essential and everyone did that. Do teachers still prescribe books or give/dictate notations in their classes?

In a music workshop, the teacher dictated the sahityam and everyone wrote it down in their notebooks. There was no notation. I'm sure some of the participants would have gone home, reviewed the recording and tried to put together the notation. But, only those who have relied on learning from notations earlier would do that. Most of the participants of the workshop would be content with their recordings. In this case, clearly recording has become the dominant documentation tool. But is it the case with all regular music classes these days, that most people are happy with the recordings and only a few get into notations? Or, do notations still continue to be used widely in most of the classes?

Thank you,
Ananth Pattabi
___________________________________
© Kuyil | Apps Crafted for Carnatic
Pocket Shruti Box: Carnatic Tambura | Sādhakam: Carnatic Swara Gnanam Practice | Shruti Carnatic Tuner

[Sivaramakrishnan]

An excellent debate initiated, raguanu.
Srinath's post #4 answers the basic issues finely in a nutshell.

Would like to share some points:

1. I have heard many senior artists reminiscing their student days where the Gurus chided them for noting down even the sahitya leave alone the notation! The celebrated Brinda Muktha school, considered the tendency for classroom notation a serious handicap on the part of the disciple. Many gurus were even unpredictable for their flow of sangatis that everytime subsequent session would render the available notation rather 'invalid'. Thus it was a way of noting down the 'varnamettu' after the classes were over and updating perhaps without the knowledge of the teacher! Thats why many kritis acquired multiple sangatis as teaching sessions progressed.

2. At the same time there were several vidwans who were famous for insisting on notations and even checking the notes of students for correction. These constitute the 'lineant majority' of teachers. Nowadays notation has become a supplementary to classroom recordings and that is why some young artists of today keep notations in front of them in electronic gadgets in concerts.

3. Though I am not a professional, music was part of our family routine wherein my mother would sing along with the Veena during evenings with my sisters joining in. (For this she had to use a high pitch for Veena -not less than 4.5 kattai-that lent an oriental charm) No notations and 'kelvijnamam' was the only 'asset' we had. She used to give some interesting tests by asking me to sit a few metres away from her and to identify the notes or kriti passages which she would play on Veena with rather 'muted pluckings'!! I had to keenly watch her left hand fingers and ascertain the swarastaanas for answers!! Wonderful times....

4. All said and done, notations are a must lest tunes are lost....

[rrkaushik]

Interesting debate and great points! Disclaimer that I can only speak from the perspective of my personal experience as a lifelong student,

For me, notation has limited but specific utility in today's audio-rich world. I tend to notate specific phrases that are especially difficult for me, or sufficiently unique to warrant special attention. Besides this, I also notate tala "placeholders" which are useful to keep the overall structure in memory. For everything else other than these use-cases, I tend to rely on my own audio recording done when the kriti is relatively fresh in my mind. To notate everything in excruciating detail may be a useful academic exercise but I find it detracts from singing with emotion if the mind is focused on notes. Besides, my view is that 80% of our music is "between" the notes anyway! With the abundance of audio and video available today, the balance has shifted even further compared to the old days where transfer of knowledge was much slower.

One of my gurus, Sri T.K. Govinda Rao, was a big proponent of sharpening ears enough to sing without notation. He was not a fan of class recordings or "swarafying". That being said, he did publish the authoritative notated versions so clearly he wasn't a die-hard about it! The other interesting anecdote he shared was from Musiri. Musiri's view on notation was that
(a) for those adept enough to interpret notation correctly , notation wasn't necessary, and
(b) for those not good enough to do so, it wasn't useful!

Of course, this is a very personal choice and music students must find their own happy medium.
Hope that was at least a little useful!

[ganesh_mourthy]

I am terrible at transcribing melody to notes. But I totally get the need for this. We had talked about this before elsewhere in this forum.

I recently found this application called AnthemScore: https://www.lunaverus.com

It is pretty good at drawing the melodic contour of a recording. It uses the western notation so it takes some effort to translate to Sargam notation once the Kattai is determined. But the contour determination is very good which helps with gamakams.

Hi VK

Long time ! ..

That anthemscore took me forever to download... and did not get installed.

Did you try the zip folder or around 380 mb , give or take? Or should I try it in the mac? I tried in the windows 10 and it failed .
By the by , how does it detect voices separated from instruments while detecting pitches and notes? Most of the softwares have does the job not so well with our music , even with just the voice, as there is a permanent drone sound in the background. Since the software takes up a lot of resources and memory , I thought I shall have a word with you before trying it .

Thank you !

[raguanu]

One of my gurus, Sri T.K. Govinda Rao, was a big proponent of sharpening ears enough to sing without notation.

The celebrated Brinda Muktha school, considered the tendency for classroom notation a serious handicap on the part of the disciple.

I'm able to relate to these in the context of class room. The student's full attention should be on the teacher's singing to grasp and repeat all the nuances. Even referring to a notation book will distract him/her. Considering that notation is not very perfect, referring to the notation when the lesson is in progress may misguide the student (that he/she may try to interpret the written notes rather than what the teacher is actually singing).

But the problem is to remember all the finer details and the way they are put together. There was a music workshop in which I learnt four or five keerthanas in a day. Recording the session was imperative, otherwise it would be difficult for me to remember everything later. Even during the workshop, when a kriti is being taught, when we are at the third or fourth sangathi of a kriti, I would find it difficult to remember the previous sangathis. So I devised this strategy: I would keenly observe and sing along during the first few iterations of learning a sangathi; during subsequent repetitions, I would sketch the notation. The notation need not be thorough, I only need to note down some essential or tricky parts.

In a regular class set up, things are not this hurried and the student will have more time to fully grasp the sangathi before moving on to next. In such cases, it makes sense to write the notation after the class. Memory fades. Notations make it easy to glance at old lessons and recollect. Though class recordings can be valuable, it would be tedious to go through all of them later.

I stumbled up on Tiger Varadhachari's varnams recently. Only his Arabhi varnam seems to be popular and has a few recordings. I distinctly remember Sanjay Subramanian singing a Kalyani varnam, which turned out to be Tiger's. Without published notations, such revivals are not possible.

Ananth Pattabi
____________________________________
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