Ranjani Gayanthri @ Odukattur Mutt, Bangalore - 1 Mar 08

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 01 Mar 2008, 22:55

Smt Ranjani & Gayathri - vocal duet
Charumathi Raghuraman - Violin
H.S.Sudheendra - Mridangam
Srishyla - Ghatam
Rajashekhar - Morsing

The concert started with Sri ragam varnam, and continued with Swaminatha Paripalaya in Naatai. Swaras were sung briskly at vamadeva paarvathi. Followed was Maa Ramanan in Hindolam. Tempo was just appropriate. Pantuvarali was given detailed treatment, and the keerthana was Ninne nera namminanura of Thyagaraja. Veda sastra purana in charanam was choosen for neraval & swaram. Sahana Raagam & Chittam Irangada enayya followed next, no neraval and swarams. Kotinalu danushkoti in Todi was rendered in super high speed next, making it wonder, whether this song is the right choice before the main item. There are many other songs which could be been choosen, instead of rushing through a piece in rakthi raaga like todi.

Main was Raama Neeyada in Kharaharapriya, neraval & swara at tana saukhyamu tAnErugaka. Thani was brisk, and rather short considering that 2 upa pakkavadhyams were there. After usual felicitaions, artists sung virutham for sivapuranam - beginning 'thayir siranda dayala..' in raga simmendra madhyamam, saveri & jhonpuri, ending up with Eppo varuvaro. They had quite a few requests from audience, and then sung Karunai deivame in sindhu bhairavi, and 2 abhangs (one of Namdev & other of thukkaram). One of the sister explained the meaning behind thukkaram abhang before singing. Concert ended with Mangalam.

The concert was overall good and well received by audience. The song list is very good, except of Todi keerthana, but i felt, it was out of place.

1. Sami ninne - Sri - Aadi - Karur devudu iyer
2. Swaminatha - Naatai - Aadi - Muthuswami Dikshitar
3. Maa ramanan - Hindolam - Rupakam - Papanasam sivan
4. Ninne nera - Pantuvarali - Rupakam - Thyagaraja
5. Chittam Irangada - Sahana - Aadi - Papanasam sivan
6. Kotinadulu - Todi - Aadi - Thyagaraja
7. Rama Neeyada - Kharaharapriya - Aadi - Thyagaraja
8. Viruttam & Eppo varuvaro - Jaunpuri - Adi - GKB
9. Karunai deviame - Sindhu bhairavi - Aadi - Madurai Shreenivaasan
10. Vitoba Chalu mandira - namdev abhang
11. Bolava vitala - Thukaram abhang
12. pavamAna - sowrashtram - Thaygaraja

-hari

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 02 Mar 2008, 00:53

They usually sing lovely viruttams - perfectly matched to the composition that follows - I used to wonder how they made their selections. I discovered much later that their dad, Sri Balasubramanian, composes many of these viruttams specifically for the songs of their choice!

Usually, Gayatri is the one who gives the explanations!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 02 Mar 2008, 06:13

were there 2 mridangams and no violin?

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 02 Mar 2008, 06:45

Oops - Rajashekhar was on morsing.. and Charumathi Raghuraman on violin

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 02 Mar 2008, 10:58

Karunai Deivame is by Madurai Srinivasan - not by Papanasam Sivan.

s_hari · Post by **s_hari** » 02 Mar 2008, 12:15

Vocalist wrote:Karunai Deivame is by Madurai Srinivasan - not by Papanasam Sivan.

Thanks for info. I am correcting the songlist

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 02 Mar 2008, 12:20

Hi,

I felt pantuvarali piece was the best of the concert. Especially the song, neraval everything touched new areas. The tempo was just right for that song.
Karakarapriya alapana was short considering the fact that it was the main song. But they compensated with long neraval and swara. The tratment was
like MMI's chakani raja, Especially the "Kamini..." in anupallavi(?). This song selection is really good, I rarely heard nowadays.

The sahana song (chitham iranga) is repeated many times. I keep hearing it everywhere from both male and female (sikkil, sanjay, nisha ) artists in the last one year.
So it gets boring for me. But their rendition is very good. After the main, there was time for RTP. But with three pakkavadhyam, I got a feeling that thani will be long and RTP will not be there and hence I left. The violin performance was really good, all her raga alapanas.

I have heard about Ranjani & Gayathri a lot and this is my first concert of them. I liked them a lot. Both are equally great and both have bhavam and skill.
They must have practised a lot together and must have worked hard. And they donot sing alapana alternating , that is a big relief for me.
I thought they will sing 'ranga pura vihara'. But looks like they have not sung. I feel they have a solid career and there is no competition to them.

balu · Post by **balu** » 02 Mar 2008, 12:23

father name is Balumani.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 02 Mar 2008, 12:38

they have become very famous for rendering abhangs, listeners pester them for singing abhangs, their marathi pronunciation is a delight, especially the manner in which
they pronounce" pandaarinatha',with a stress on" ndaa"..in fact I sent an e mail to them long back for a commecial cd of abhangs gobilalitha

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 03 Mar 2008, 18:50

http://www.sangeethamshare.org/harihara ... i-Mar2008/

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 05 Mar 2008, 06:39

many thanks,kalgada78. I heard the abhangs. filled my heart with joy.there was some disturbance, when they said something about the second abhang. did they mention the raag?, I, think the first one was maand. the second started as miyan ki todi , but later resembled , bhatiyar and bibas, am I correct? gobilalitha

kalgada78 · Post by **kalgada78** » 05 Mar 2008, 07:34

, think the first one was maand. the second started as miyan ki todi , but later resembled , bhatiyar and bibas,

Balu Sir,

The first one is a flavor of Kalyan (not sure what it is called). The scale is : SGMPNS - SNDPMGRS
The second one : It is Batiyar.

Sarma

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 05 Mar 2008, 17:14

rajaglan wrote:The sahana song (chitham iranga) is repeated many times. I keep hearing it everywhere from both male and female (sikkil, sanjay, nisha ) artists in the last one year.
So it gets boring for me.

Yes, I noticed this too. It used to be one of those rare compositions but now it is being done to death!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 06 Mar 2008, 06:29

It so happens that artists have to sing some songs regularly to please the audience. I have already mentioned a joke by the audience friendly TVSankaranarayanan≥ I repeat it again. In a performance , when tvs finished the varnam, one enthusiast shouted 'eppovaruvaro' TVS said wait, he will take his own time. gobilalitha

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 07 Mar 2008, 18:26

I personally feel, there should not be any requests which changes the concert plan of the artist. Imagine if people had requests to Sanjay in the last bangalore concert to sing some favorite songs, we wouldnot have heard the Jhonpuri RTP. I feel unlike the past , nowadays the artist know what best to deliver as they know both history (what they sang previous years) and geography(where they sang) . In fact some websites have archive of what they sang in each place (TMK). Also most fav items are available in the youtube/albums.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 07 Mar 2008, 19:35

rajaglan, absolutely. I have always wondered why people are so keen on requests when most of the songs they want are already available on the net, in CD's, etc. I guess the two possible explanations are (1) there is some special thrill in hearing favourite songs live, and/or (2) having requests fulfilled makes the audience feel more important.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 08 Mar 2008, 18:52

rajaglan wrote:I personally feel, there should not be any requests which changes the concert plan of the artist. Imagine if people had requests to Sanjay in the last bangalore concert to sing some favorite songs, we wouldnot have heard the Jhonpuri RTP. I feel unlike the past , nowadays the artist know what best to deliver as they know both history (what they sang previous years) and geography(where they sang) . In fact some websites have archive of what they sang in each place (TMK). Also most fav items are available in the youtube/albums.

bilahari wrote:rajaglan, absolutely. I have always wondered why people are so keen on requests when most of the songs they want are already available on the net, in CD's, etc. I guess the two possible explanations are (1) there is some special thrill in hearing favourite songs live, and/or (2) having requests fulfilled makes the audience feel more important.

If artists knew what best to deliver, then the requests would make no
difference because the artist would've expected them, and planned to sing them in the first place!

To some extent, it is true that rare 'unheard' items may suffer from too many requests. I however, disagree to some extent with the argument that it is available in albums and so on. Just because they are available in albums, doesn't mean that all of the audience have necessarily heard their rendition, and this platform may be what determines whether it would be worth spending extra money on the album. And a song isn't often sung the same way it is sung in a concert. For example, one can note the differences in Nithyashree singing an Ahirbhairav "Kanda Nee Oru" on Jaya TV, and in the other concerts where she had sang it, and probably, in future concerts she will sing it at, and any studio-recorded albums. These seemingly very minute differences can make a big difference to students of the art, especially those who are grasping either the raga, the tala, the composition, etc. Then of course there is a thrill - it may be a song you know, a song or rendition that you love and you never tire of hearing, or is just something you'd like to hear a new version of...the thrill is hearing it (maybe again), but more than that, hearing it LIVE!! While we cannot hear MSS singing a Kaatrinile or Kurai Ondrum Illai again, there are people who still seem to get this thrill (similar in some ways, but very different in others). A rendition may have also made an artist famous, like Aruna Sairam's rendition of the Kalinga Narthana Thillana that so many seem to swoon over. Like this, there are many different reasons that can be given - certainly more than 2.

While people (including myself sometimes) cannot appreciate the same song or rendition in the same way as other people, we have to remember that they are a part of the audience too. I do admit that it is irritating or silly when people shout requests right after a varnam. :/ or if they hog all the requests to themselves :/ but usually, this isn't the case. The 'requests' system has been a part of the kutcheri for a long time, and with those exceptions, I don't see any reason why it should be any different. Isn't it easier to let it pass, move on, and enjoy as much as you can?

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 09 Mar 2008, 00:31

Hi Vocalist,

My thoughts below. The idea is not to totally disagree on your points.

1. Nowadays the requests are diminsihing compared to olden days. May be it is a sabha/location different.

I remember in Blore Fort high school , last year, in TMK concerts, , there was some intermission in the begining of the concert itself (after 2 songs may be ) , some speech and people started pouring with requets in papers to TMK , TMK collected requests which finally can be made to a notebook. So may be the intermission helped people. But what can be done with 10-15 papers of requests. But in the recent spring festival, lierally no requests. Offcourse the violinist requetsed TMK for a song.

2. MSS and her songs : I have heard many people sing her songs starting from Unnikrishnan, Sudha, aruna sairam.... But I am not sure what the audience are looking for. How can others singing it in live can come even close to MSS singing in album.

After listening to Unnikrishnan, for 2 hours in one concert, when he started Kurai Ondrum illai , there were huge claps. I am not sure whether the claps are for MSS or or for the song or for Unni choosing the song or for all. I really thought, are they all waiting for this particular song all along?

I agree that there is a special thrill when your request gets accepted or what you like is sung live.

3. I agree with you on the example kalinga narthana thillana of Aruna and NSM's Kanda Nee oru. Same person , same song, not heard much or some differences ... fine.

4. I am fine as long as the artist is ready to sing those songs and chnages the plans accordingly consdiering time etc. I have one album where Maharajapuram sings twleve songs after the RTP including two ragamaligas. It is more than one casette of a three casette (recoring of a live concert). And you can hear people keep asking and MRPS saying time is late etc in the album. But it goes on. But those days , with no internets, least albums, situations are different. Now songs are easily accessaible in internet and lots of albums are released.

5. But I disagree with you giving requests immediately after the varnam, it is actually better (if the artist wants to oblige) as they can better plan the concert. If someone wants to listen to Marubalka from TMK, (because his guru's fav song) , it is better told in the begining so that it can be placed in the right point of the concert by removing what he planned to sing instead. But telling him to sing Marubalka after RTP or main, doesnot really fit in the concert pattern.

6. I keep going to concerts because, firstly one can get to listen to what artists are learning latest and defintely new ideas on what they used to sing earlier , the second is ,in general, artist take lot more risk in a concert than in a album and thirdly main artist with different accompanist. (I think this is one of the reason why we keep hearing to kamboji, sankarabaranam and Todi year after year from different artist without getting bored) . And I keep listening to albums because I have some fav songs there and I like to hear whenever I feel like.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 09 Mar 2008, 01:19

My two cents worth on a point well written. Favoring the audience by singing songs of their choice is one way of winning the hearts of the concert goers. Artists are there because of the listeners and not the other way around. Moreover, I hope cassettes and CDs are not meant to replace the artists; but to supplement their efforts to reach out to those not fortunate enough to participate in concerts and at the same time, maintain flow of income when there is no concert. Moreover these cassettes, CDs and other digital medias help interested listeners to learn and practice music.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 09 Mar 2008, 03:51

In a concert in Purdue a couple of years ago, I heard that TMK asked the organizers to find out in advance if there were any requests from members of the society. Apparently a bunch of requests were collected and emailed to him about a week before his concert. He announced that he set his program based on the requests....

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 09 Mar 2008, 10:07

rajaglan wrote:2. MSS and her songs : I have heard many people sing her songs starting from Unnikrishnan, Sudha, aruna sairam.... But I am not sure what the audience are looking for. How can others singing it in live can come even close to MSS singing in album.

After listening to Unnikrishnan, for 2 hours in one concert, when he started Kurai Ondrum illai , there were huge claps. I am not sure whether the claps are for MSS or or for the song or for Unni choosing the song or for all. I really thought, are they all waiting for this particular song all along?

I agree that there is a special thrill when your request gets accepted or what you like is sung live.

4. I am fine as long as the artist is ready to sing those songs and chnages the plans accordingly consdiering time etc. I have one album where Maharajapuram sings twleve songs after the RTP including two ragamaligas. It is more than one casette of a three casette (recoring of a live concert). And you can hear people keep asking and MRPS saying time is late etc in the album. But it goes on. But those days , with no internets, least albums, situations are different. Now songs are easily accessaible in internet and lots of albums are released.

5. But I disagree with you giving requests immediately after the varnam, it is actually better (if the artist wants to oblige) as they can better plan the concert. If someone wants to listen to Marubalka from TMK, (because his guru's fav song) , it is better told in the begining so that it can be placed in the right point of the concert by removing what he planned to sing instead. But telling him to sing Marubalka after RTP or main, doesnot really fit in the concert pattern.

Some people wait to hear familiar, lighter songs. Both Nithyashree and Unnikrishnan have said that in certain concerts (like temple concerts), one would expect to find less people wanting to hear heavy Carnatic music. So, rather than dragging out long alapanas etc., in between, by adding familiar songs like Kurai Ondrum Illai or Theeratha Vilayattu Pillai or Nanoru Vilayattu to name a few, a lot of people will respond more favourably (and presumably stay awake) to hear the rest of the concert. People enjoy Kurai Ondrum Illai, no matter which vidwan or vidushi sings it - even if it doesn't match MSS's version according to some of us, they are not comparing. Some people just love the way Unnikrishnan sings that song, so the excitement may have led to the clapping.

I am sure that not everyone is in a position to be able to find these songs on the internet or have the money to buy all the albums, or more than that, have the time to listen to them. A concert is different in that a certain amount of time is put aside just to attend and listen to this concert, so an extra favourite song for example, is not too much to ask I don't think. We cannot assume that it will be any easier to do the same for an album, at (a perhaps chaotic) home.

I am against requests for songs or elaborations prior to the main (unless these requests have been handed well before the concert has even begun - whether through the email or sabha or somehow else). I consider it too late for such a request to be made after the concert has begun as it can pose a lot of problems. Not all artists mind though, and if a Sriranjani was planned, it may not be much of a problem, but there are other times when it can get difficult. This is partially why some requests are declined.

Similar to the example cited by rshankar above, Nithyashree Mahadevan sang a concert comprising of requests. It was well-received, and although they were all the same songs that were in an album of hers, they loved it and didn't see it as being the same as what is heard in the album. Similarly, I can't remember whether it was Sudha Raghunathan, Aruna Sairam or Ranjani Gayathri who did something similar in one of their concerts.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 09 Mar 2008, 10:10

VK RAMAN wrote:Moreover, I hope cassettes and CDs are not meant to replace the artists; but to supplement their efforts to reach out to those not fortunate enough to participate in concerts and at the same time, maintain flow of income when there is no concert. Moreover these cassettes, CDs and other digital medias help interested listeners to learn and practice music.

Indeed!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 09 Mar 2008, 11:01

rshankar,

Prior requests by TMK, that is a great idea.
VK Raman, Good point on album helps people learning music .
Vocalist : Replacing songs during concerts : it needs to match with the request, it is easy to replace siva siva yena by a marubalga or meenakshi memudham. Yes, considering factors like occassion, spread of composres, in the concert plan gets affected.

But the kurai ondrum illai audience should take time to graduate to a level where they enjoy the alapanas because that is what the artist is working/improving upon constantly. I get bored with the song after a season whether it is ARR or Ilayaraja or Ma Janaki. Fortunately CM has the variety in terms raga, krithi,laya, manodharama etc which keeps feeding the appetite.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 09 Mar 2008, 11:05

Ravi that sounds to me like a more reasonable way to go about making requests, giving the artiste a fair chance to polish up the items in question.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 09 Mar 2008, 19:12

The act of requesting does not bother me as much as the nature of requests. Encumbered by requests, artistes very rarely seem to present rare, new songs at the end of the concert (i.e. Sudha). I agree that if requests are made well in advance of the concert, they can be more judiciously incorporated into the concert. This way, they can be interspersed with other items the artiste may want to present, and the concert is attractive all sections of the audience. Even if the same songs are requested, the artiste can prepare beforehand to introduce a new spin on the old. The prefixing of an RTP to EppO VaruvArO in Sanjay's recent concert is a good example of such spin.

Another panacea is the presentation of some requests-only concerts, which I admit is logistically not very feasible. Sudha's two concerts in Singapore are a good example. In the first, she presented heavy Carnatic material, which hardcore enthusiasts loved. In her second concert, she mostly presented popular lighter items for the more lay audience, with the occasional ragam and swaras.

The claim that the modern concertgoing audience may not have the resources to purchase CD's, download songs on the internet, or have the time to listen to music outside of concerts is a hard sell for me. Just my opinion.

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 09 Mar 2008, 22:11

rajaglan wrote:But the kurai ondrum illai audience should take time to graduate to a level where they enjoy the alapanas because that is what the artist is working/improving upon constantly. I get bored with the song after a season whether it is ARR or Ilayaraja or Ma Janaki. Fortunately CM has the variety in terms raga, krithi,laya, manodharama etc which keeps feeding the appetite.

bilahari wrote:The act of requesting does not bother me as much as the nature of requests.
The claim that the modern concertgoing audience may not have the resources to purchase CD's, download songs on the internet, or have the time to listen to music outside of concerts is a hard sell for me. Just my opinion.

Well, that is each individual's choice and I personally don't think anyone has the authority to tell someone else that they should graduate to any level. If they are bored of alapanas, so what? It doesn't mean they shouldn't attend concerts or shouldn't make requests for Kurai Ondrum Illai or songs of the like. They too are a rasika of some sort and are entitled to their views/tastes/choices, however limited their knowledge or appreciation may be. While it is easy to make such opinions, assumptions and judgements on or about such rasikas, just remember that they would make their own on or about rasikas such as yourself. I can't help but wonder, what is the point?

Why not enjoy what you get, and move on?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 10 Mar 2008, 00:12

Vocalist, because some of us cannot enjoy a concert full of Kurai Onrum and such...just as some people are rightly entitled to crib about too much of alaapanas, swaras etc...so, too, are we entiled to crib about tukkadas taking over! And considering that we are in a minority, we are also entitled to shout louder than the others!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Mar 2008, 01:30

As someone else alluded to earlier, many audience members derive some satisfaction in getting their request honored. Think about it, what is a high probability way to get your request honored? Definitely not an unknown raga or a rare krithi. Send in a request that a lot of others will send in as well. To be sure, this is not the motivation of all those who make these requests but it does not take a lot to create this self-fulfilling prophecy.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 10 Mar 2008, 17:56

vasanthakokilam wrote:As someone else alluded to earlier, many audience members derive some satisfaction in getting their request honored. Think about it, what is a high probability way to get your request honored? Definitely not an unknown raga or a rare krithi. Send in a request that a lot of others will send in as well. To be sure, this is not the motivation of all those who make these requests but it does not take a lot to create this self-fulfilling prophecy.

If I understand you correctly, just getting satisfaction out of getting a request honoured, looks very selfish. If audience enjoys the live rendition, it is fine.
Request is always a popular krithi of him, that (he sings again and again in every concert) or his guru's popular and not a rare raga. ... I agree with you.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 10 Mar 2008, 18:01

vijay wrote:Vocalist, because some of us cannot enjoy a concert full of Kurai Onrum and such...just as some people are rightly entitled to crib about too much of alaapanas, swaras etc...so, too, are we entiled to crib about tukkadas taking over! And considering that we are in a minority, we are also entitled to shout louder than the others!

Looking at the crowd at spring festivel for Sanjay and TMK till the END, it doesnot look like it is a minority. The claps for jhonpuri RTP almost 6-7 times at different points
of alapana, thanam show that people enjoy even this item.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 10 Mar 2008, 19:16

That is probably because Sanjay and TMK etc. attract a certain kind of crowd...for others, the response can be very different!!

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 11 Mar 2008, 00:11

Or...it was just a coincidence. TMK and Sanjay get the 'boring' requests as well - just not at this venue perhaps. And claps don't necessarily mean they enjoy an item in the way you would like to think they do.

Thukkadas never take over a concert generally, unless it was a thematic concert of sorts, so I don't see any reason for this sort of 'shouting' until or unless such a takeover occurs. At least, you get what you want in the first half - they have to usually wait until the second half.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 11 Mar 2008, 01:18

Vocalist wrote:
rajaglan wrote:But the kurai ondrum illai audience should take time to graduate to a level where they enjoy the alapanas because that is what the artist is working/improving upon constantly. I get bored with the song after a season whether it is ARR or Ilayaraja or Ma Janaki. Fortunately CM has the variety in terms raga, krithi,laya, manodharama etc which keeps feeding the appetite.

bilahari wrote:The act of requesting does not bother me as much as the nature of requests.
The claim that the modern concertgoing audience may not have the resources to purchase CD's, download songs on the internet, or have the time to listen to music outside of concerts is a hard sell for me. Just my opinion.
Well, that is each individual's choice and I personally don't think anyone has the authority to tell someone else that they should graduate to any level. If they are bored of alapanas, so what? It doesn't mean they shouldn't attend concerts or shouldn't make requests for Kurai Ondrum Illai or songs of the like. They too are a rasika of some sort and are entitled to their views/tastes/choices, however limited their knowledge or appreciation may be. While it is easy to make such opinions, assumptions and judgements on or about such rasikas, just remember that they would make their own on or about rasikas such as yourself. I can't help but wonder, what is the point? Why not enjoy what you get, and move on?

authority : I thought that is a fact (and my experience too) and why authority required to preach a fact?
"It doesn't mean they shouldn't attend concerts or shouldn't make requests for Kurai Ondrum Illai or songs of the like" >>> I didnot say this. This is your derived thought. Please donot interpret wrongly.