Identifying the raga of this song

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 12 Mar 2008, 01:09

Can someone please help me identify the raga(s) of this song?

http://www.raaga.com/getclip.asp?id=999999017725

Thanks a lot.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 12 Mar 2008, 01:42

It sounds like a fusion of several ragas.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Mar 2008, 01:48

Its seems like a mixture of two ragas, or two moods - possibly some grahabedham going on (or atleast change tonic but maybe a change on scale on top too).

One seems to be udayaravichandrika i.e. S G2 M1 P N3 S (note n3). The other one I cannot tell but if you assume same "sa" as for Udayaravichandrika, then other one has D2 (and N3). I cannot make out others.

However, I dont think the sa's are same. I think the "sa" for other raga is lower than that of Udaya-ravinchandrika and more within the comfort range for Unni). Possibly the ma for that raga is taken as sadja for Udayaravichandrika. (in which case it D2 and N3 per sa of Udayaravichandrika - translates to R2 and G3 - so S R2 G3 M1 in purvanga.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Mar 2008, 01:49

Yep - does look like *atleast* two ragas

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Mar 2008, 02:10

Update:
Well I should have listened to the whole song. He does swaras later

From that I think perhaps: S G3 M1 D2 N3 S N3 D2 M1 G3 R2 S

But he brings pa at the end - may be mixes into some other raga as evidenced by the sa-ga-ma-da-ni and sa-ga-ma-pa-ni bit he does. I dont understand what is going on there. He maintains the same sa but different notes (s g3 m2 p n3? or m1 p n3). It cannot be grahabedham if sa is same.

The focus on M1 threw me off w.r.t Udayaravichandrika.

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Mar 2008, 02:29

That turns out to be *completely* wrong! I will shut up now

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 12 Mar 2008, 03:20

It's called "kAkofaNi"

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 12 Mar 2008, 04:06

sounds more like an experiment of BMK...

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 12 Mar 2008, 04:34

Thanks lot for your answers.

Suji Ram, Sharath (music composer of this song) is a disciple of BMK. Are there are any commercial releases from BMK that resembles this composition?

arunk, the juggling of swaras makes me wonder whether there is any regular pattern to it or is it just some random patterns.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Mar 2008, 05:24

At first it did seem random and unpredictable in terms of moods it evoked. But when I listen to it more there is some sort of a pattern although I am yet to be able define it well.

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Mar 2008, 05:34

When our Guruji Arun has tried and is stumped it is presumptuous of me to attempt ! But he would not mind my getting a shot using my software

I get the notes to be S G1 M1 D1 N2 S' / S' N2 D1 M1 R2 S and as a janya of Ratnangi (2nd meLam). The raga is svayamvara.
Note the use of the vivadi svara G1 which is used as R2 in the avarOhana. Anya svara of pancamam is also employed. The singing is more HM style and hence misra raga cannot be ruled out!
Did you guys note that the song is in Malayalam though it sounds like sanskrit ?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Mar 2008, 05:35

.. we should wait for the return of our expert Ramraj to make a final call!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Mar 2008, 05:43

cmlover - I tied myself into knots

For some reason, the initial feel gave me S G2 M1 P N3 S, and I thought a variant of that with to leads to graha-bedham etc. would be S G3 M1 D2 etc. - when all that seems very very wrong (atleast when I checked with keyboard). I started on the wrong track and could never get out of it even psycho-acoustically.

I said I will shut up but yours I think is pretty close except for the ga. I think it may be just g2.

Arun

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 12 Mar 2008, 07:18

This is an amazing clip containing many elements of shruti bheda to bring out shades of different ragas (albeit unusual ones) and even non-ragas at different times. It would do modern chromatic music proud and must be very difficult to sing for Carnatically trained singers. Unnikrishnan is quite amazing and the composer too.

Will post a detailed second by second analysis if get time (after listening to the clip many times) but here are some quick thoughts:

1. The tabla and the tampura (faintly heard) are tuned to D which can be deemed as a "tonic" or "aadhara" but it is only for reference. The melodies go everywhere !

2. Using different tonics at various times, all twelve notes on a chromatic scale are brought out in the piece.

3. The clip starts with Unnikrishnan singing hildolam (G2 M1 D1 N2 S...) at around 14 seconds using the D key as the tonic around 14 seconds...but soon lapses into another graha on the descent. For example

4. Around 46 seconds you hear Sallapa (vakulabharnam janya) on the keyboard/synthesizer S G3 M1 D1 N2 but the descent is a complete chromatic in fast janta S S N3 N3 N2 N2 D2 D2 D1 D1 .... etc... This is the clue that somewhere in this piece all the twelve notes will occur!

5. Some confusion due to the closeness of Hindolam and Sallapa.

6. Somehwhere there's a brief shade of patdeep also.

7. A major distraction is that the G key goes in and out of being a tonic. Another tonic that I noticed is C# (really!).

6. The "swaraprastharas" are a mass of confusion...designed to obfuscate and drive you crazy ! Really cool.

More tomorrow if I get time.

jananee · Post by **jananee** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:03

Call it a co incidence....this song was featured yesterday in Asianet Star Singer ...where a candidate Arun Gopan sang it in his " challenge round" . The whole of last night I have been trying to figure out this song! Mr Sarath the composer is a judge in this programme so there was some discussion on this song..We could get it in you tube in awhile where u can listen to what the composer had to say. ( cud kick myself for not noting down what he said..i was kind of trying to figure out t whole song at that point) Most certainly after listening to Unni the song is clearer.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:06

Note that Sallapa shares the arohana with patdeep when M1 is used as tonic.
Sallapa = S G3 M1 D1 N2
Patdeep (arohana) = S G2 M1 P N3

jananee · Post by **jananee** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRGpo0j-Gy0. yet to locate the part where Mr sarath speaks on this.

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:11

Thanks, CML and Uday.

Uday, I am looking forward to your detailed review of this song.

jananee, I have posted the video you are referring to below (comments from Sharath). That is what also prompted me to post this question in the first place.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3ulfgROUBM[/youtube]

jananee · Post by **jananee** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:13

shadjam...looks like we posted it almost together!

.Thanks ......also uday, cml , arunk..witing to hear more details on this uday....because it has been in the system from yday night!

shadjam · Post by **shadjam** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:22

Unnikrishnan himself has mentioned that this the most difficult song he has ever sung.

yamini: Which song u felt more difficult/tough to sing?
Unni_krishnan: I sang a malayalam song which is the toughest ever I came across. You really have to listen to believe it.

haar: Which no of urs was toughest for u to sing & you had to take a lot of rehearsals?
Unni_krishnan: A Malayalam song, haar, for the film 'Devadasi'.

http://chennaionline.com/chat/celebchat ... script.asp

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:23

oh boy !!!
patdeep is the truly,the flavour of this summer !!!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:35

hi, ashwin and rohin, pl hear this song if not you have already done. wonderful.literally lifts you to the world of divine music, pl ask lakshmi also to hear . after pramada vanam venum of the film HHAbdulla,, yet another beautiful song. best wishes for your cleveland performance. post extracts. are lakshmi, rajeswari, vikram coming to Cleveland?lalitha joins me in wishing you all the best, note the lively discussions on the raaga of this song . I noted TNS is performing at toronto this monthend balu uncle gobilalitha

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Mar 2008, 10:29

Uday
I am with you on D as the tonic!
The start was Hindolam and very soon it was lost and I did get the feel for sallabam. But then it was almost noman's land. I eagerly await your detailed analysis!
In the video one comments about hamsanandi but I never caught it...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 12 Mar 2008, 10:29

I dont understand malayalam - but that video is amazing. The music director indeed is amazing.

I still dont fully get what he is saying w.r.t the svara portion. But he does say (and demonstrate) explicitly that "sa" shifts down for the 3 "swara phrases" uttered consecutively. But what the scales are etc. - I cannot decode.

Arun

jananee · Post by **jananee** » 12 Mar 2008, 11:58

CML..the director i thought was mentioning about the hamsanandi which came in at the charanam and where the contestant did not sing it like hamsanandi.

And he demonsstrates the " sa" in 3 scales..the change in shruti....will wait fr more detials on this from arun n uday!

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 12 Mar 2008, 12:56

What a coincidence. I started a thread on this Asia net program without seeing this thread.

MSV who was celebrity guest mentioned that it was a remarkable composition. He also mentioned about graha bedam in the song and the contestant was not sure about the sruthi (some thing like that I am not sure). Sarath expalined the swaras in some sections of the song but I could not follow fully

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 12 Mar 2008, 22:54

Intriguing song. Now that the composer has explained, it is interesting.
I'm surprised to know he is a disciple of BMK- I mentioned earlier in my post this song sounds as an experiment of BMK without even knowing who composed this piece.
--or should I say not so surprising!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 13 Mar 2008, 00:35

Suji
As you have correctly identified the Guru of the composer of this piece, perhaps the Guru may desire to designate this raga as 'Sarath'