RTP in patdIp

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 28 Mar 2008, 04:24

Sanjay Subrahmanyam has rendered it here:

http://www.sangeethamshare.org/manjunat ... i-Concert/

revanthv552 · Post by **revanthv552** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:35

thanks for this..

vignesh.ishwar · Post by **vignesh.ishwar** » 28 Mar 2008, 14:42

thanks lot .....

balusatya · Post by **balusatya** » 28 Mar 2008, 18:59

Is this song on the same raga -"Samarasam ulavum idame..nam vashvil kanaa samarasam ulavum idame"sung by Sirkali Govindarajan(Those below 45 please excuse!).It struck me only when I just heard this RTP.Any idea of derivative of this Raga may be shared for enlightenment.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 28 Mar 2008, 21:12

bhUlOga rambai

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 29 Mar 2008, 06:47

Veynkuzhalin geetham ketkude, byMSS in Meera,isit based on patdip?, it's cm equivalent is Gowrimanohari, I think. am I correct, several decades ago , when I was living in Salem (not new hampshire, Us, but it's sisterin tamilnad), the great singing star,actorTRMahalingam, attached to Modern Theaters then, taught my cousin a song in gowriman ohari, 'samayamidhe arul dayanidhe' can anybody post the lyrics of the songand the song itself rendered by some artist... whose song is it? gobilalitha

tmohan · Post by **tmohan** » 29 Mar 2008, 16:18

-"Samarasam ulavum idame..nam vashvil kanaa samarasam ulavum idame"sung by Sirkali Govindarajan , I think it is in Abheri/KarNataka devagAndhAri.

Yes. patdIp is the HindustAni equivalent of Gowri Manohari, like madhuvanti is to dharmavati. To me it sounds the ascent of both the rAgAs are s g m p n s with sampurNa avarohaNam.

Yes. "Veynkuzhalin geetham ketkude"., by MSS in Meera is in patdIp- she later has renderd "villinaiyotta puruvam.." the kAvaDic cindu of Bharati in this rAga and also in the dasAvtAra stuti of Jayadev potraying parashurAma.

Mohan

matterwaves · Post by **matterwaves** » 30 Mar 2008, 06:47

folks,
excuse me for my naivette..Im not a very discerning connoisuer of CM and hence cant get into the identification of exact swaras ad looking up the scales to lookup which raga is being rendered. I simply go by intuition and im right 95% of the times..I heard Snjay's rendition of Patdip and I could not guess that this was gauri manohari..why is that i sense difference is the same raga rendered in two different styles? is it because the swaras and sancharas stressed in different styles are different?

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 31 Mar 2008, 06:38

. vijay, arunk and all other raaga experts, pl come forward with your valuable views gobilalitha.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 31 Mar 2008, 14:28

Matterwaves Patdip is NOT gaowrimanohari...it is a Janya of the latter just like Madhuvanti is a Janya of Dharmavati...SGMPNS-SNDPMGRS with notes from the Gowrimanohari scale. To give you an example Karnataka devagandhari (Prashant, note the correction!) can hardly be expected to sound like its parents kharaharapriya. Howe ever it is possible to detect shades of Gowri Manohari and Karnataka Devagandhari in Patdip...

Identifying ragas based on listening experience (or familiar phrases) is fine except when you are dealing with new/novel ragas like Patdeep which forces you to figure out the swaras. It is also possible to make a Kalyani/Thodi sound completely different despite being "theoretically correct" (hear Komal Re Asavari without cheating on Parrikar's notes and figure out which CM raga it corresponds to!)....but such theoretical correctness would hardly have any meaning in the context of the art form...

Gobilalitha sir, since when did I become a raga expert?!

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 31 Mar 2008, 19:30

Here is the information about paTdIp from Raganidhi by B.Subba Rao.
paTdIp or paTdIpikA belongs to kAfi thAT (kharaharapriyA). It is an auDava-sampUrNa rAgA with the ArOhaNa/avarOhaN of:
*n s g m p n s / s n d p m g r sa *n s g r s
SvarAs used are tIvra ri, kOmal ga, shuddha ma, tIvra dha and tIvra ni. Vadi is pa and samvAdi is sa
While singing this rAgA tIvra ni has to be brought into prominence. It is slightly elongated. Ending of the alAp is with *n s g r s. This present day paTdIp sounds like bhImpalAs in which tIvra ni has been substituted for kOmal ni.
There is no karnatak rAgA called patdIp or paTdIpikA. Hindustani rAgA paTdIp itself is becoming popular in the south as paTdIp.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 31 Mar 2008, 22:16

Subba Rao's book (published how many years ago?) says 'it is becoming popular in the south' which means some sang it at one time (when, I wonder). If they did, add one more epithet to Sanjay who sang an RTP recently: rivivalist (or revitalist?)...

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 01 Apr 2008, 06:12

vijay, you did not become a raaga expert . you were born a raaga expert!!!!gobilalitha

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 01 Apr 2008, 07:08

vijay wrote:Matterwaves Patdip is NOT gaowrimanohari...it is a Janya of the latter just like Madhuvanti is a Janya of Dharmavati...SGMPNS-SNDPMGRS with notes from the Gowrimanohari scale. To give you an example Karnataka devagandhari (Prashant, note the correction!) can hardly be expected to sound like its parents kharaharapriya. Howe ever it is possible to detect shades of Gowri Manohari and Karnataka Devagandhari in Patdip...

vijay a small correction. You should not be able to detect karnataka-devagandhari here because it uses kaisiki-nishAdam, wherease paTdIp uses kakali nishAdam (difference between kharaharapriya and gowrimanohari).

It instead it should (and does) show shades of the udayaravicandrika (dIkshitar school) - S G2 M1 P N3 S - S N3 P M1 G2 S. Actually paTdIp may remind people of some film songs as e.g. Ilayaraja has used some songs ragas in similar (or maybe the same) as this one. One is pADum vAnambADi (SPB), muttu-muttu vErOTTam (thanks to drs for this reference). See this thread: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1645 (of course not about paTDIp but about udayaravichandrika whose melodic strains appear here in places).

Arun

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 01 Apr 2008, 08:51

all said and done, when we speak about similarities of hm and cm raagas, we only mean that they just resemble each other. we cannot look for similarities swara by swara.. .gobilalitha

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 01 Apr 2008, 09:06

vijay wrote:(Prashant, note the correction!)

Duly noted

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 01 Apr 2008, 09:49

matterwaves wrote:why is that i sense difference is the same raga rendered in two different styles? is it because the swaras and sancharas stressed in different styles are different?

Even though paTdIp is not gowri manOhari, you will find a lot of differnece in the sanchAras that are supposedy equivalent too.

You can compare renditions of rAgas taken from Karnataka sangeeta to hindUstani such as simhEndra madhyama, kIravANi etc as examples. Even between rAgas like chakravAka and ahir bhairav, the difference is quite visible.

-Ramakriya

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 02 Apr 2008, 06:45

L ji
I guess it is time for you to Start a section on compositions created by Rasikaorgites and performed by Rasikaorgites.
here we go with the first one.Let us start the guessing game..

a varnam inspired by this RTP ...

http://rapidshare.com/files/104179444/p ... _Adi_-.mp3

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2008, 07:03

What a fantasric lyric, svarajaalam and melodious singing!!!
My first guess is it is DRS (incognito since his Mudra is not there) and probably sung by Sahana !
Say yes or no so that I can still let go my imagination!

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 02 Apr 2008, 07:13

mudra is there.at the end

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2008, 07:28

?NandagOpAl

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Apr 2008, 09:34

Simply beautiful!
The mudrA says Nandagopal.
Who sings it with such ease? Yes, her voice is sweet too, like Sahana's.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 02 Apr 2008, 10:06

Must be Sri K Nandagopal's ( knandago2000?)

-Ramakriya

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 02 Apr 2008, 12:15

Beautiful varnam! and rendered so sweetly.
it does sound Carnatic style

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 02 Apr 2008, 12:24

Excellent stuff. I enjoyed listening to it very much. Congratulations to the composer and singer.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 02 Apr 2008, 12:26

knanadago , it is indeed.

I will leave it to him ,to introduce the singer

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 02 Apr 2008, 13:37

I'm simply overwhelmed.. Thank you so much everyone. The imaginative and sensitive singing is testimony to Ahiri's scholarship in music - she interpreted it from the notation that mnsriram had given her. Thanks to the team! Should anyone else be interested, I will post the notation for the varnam later. Thanks again everyone.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2008, 18:14

Please Please post the notations. It will be a treat even to read them. Ahiri has bowled us over! What a talent. And thanks to MNS for the support. Above all you are marvellous and let the creative juice flow more often. As suji says you have carnatified Patdeep and the experiment is worth doing with more of the HM ragas.
Thanks coolkarni!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 02 Apr 2008, 18:22

Ahiri,
That was great! MNS and you--our honey-voiced singers!
Nandagopal,
Thanks again.
Cool,
Without you, we wouldn't have had such a treat...

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 02 Apr 2008, 19:29

Very nice varna indeed!, Please post notations (and any others you might have too!)

-Ramakriya

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 02 Apr 2008, 19:45

Nandagopal - very nice - a varNam in a rare rAga, and that too on hanumAn! And Ahiri, great singing! And Kji as catalyst - what more can we ask for?

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 02 Apr 2008, 20:15

It is wonderful to listen to Ahiri rendering the varNa by Nandagopal. Did Sriram set it to music? Thanks to all of you.

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 02 Apr 2008, 20:27

As promised, here links to the notations:
http://www.badongo.com/file/8595332

Sriram, Ahiri, K'ji, Cmlover, Suji, Arasi, Lakshman, Ravi, Ramakriya - thanks a million for everything. Hope you enjoy singing it on Rama Navami.

mnsriram · Post by **mnsriram** » 02 Apr 2008, 20:49

Lakshman wrote:Did Sriram set it to music?

The best I could do was to try and learn the varNam and I haven't even managed that. All I did was forward the notation to Ahiri and I am very glad I did that. She has done a superb job.

The varNam was composed and set to tune by Sri Nandagopal. You should also listen to Sri Nandagopal's version of the varNam. I request Sri Nandagopal to post his audio whenever possible.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2008, 20:49

Thank you very much!
Now every day will be a Rama Navami

What is 'kere' ?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2008, 20:58

Got it !

Kere Sri Anjaneya
The only Anjaneya Swami consecrated by Sri Bhagavatpada - Jagadguru Sri Adi Ahankaracharya is housed in the temple in west corner of Sringeri. Sri Anjaneya swami of this kshetra is known as Kere Sri Anjaneya. Today if you go to Sringeri, the new bus stand had been constructed over the place where once a lake was there. In Kannada language 'kere' means lake. Since originally Sri Anjaneya Swami was consecrated on the banks of the lake He is known as Kere Sri Anjaneya.

ramakriya!
Want to add any more?

Ahiri · Post by **Ahiri** » 02 Apr 2008, 21:14

Mikka nanri all.

The Varnam opened up many expressions of Patdip -Thanks to Nandagopal.
i enjoyed singing it but frankly innum katchitham is needed in my singing.
Familiarity will breed Katchitham,i hope
and shall soon post a well-toned version.

Is Tu badee Masha allah kahe Abdulla
from His highness Abdullah in ragam Patdip ?

Thanks !!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2008, 21:26

Ahiri
You want to gild the lily

Go ahead! we are ready!
God bless you!

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 02 Apr 2008, 21:39

Ahiri,
your rendering was so brilliant! I like the pitch of your voice.
Nice that you sang the swaram as well as the sAhityam...

Thanks to Nandagopal..

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 02 Apr 2008, 22:05

cmlover wrote:Thank you very much!
Now every day will be a Rama Navami
What is 'kere' ?

Kere = means "Eri" in Tamizh - normally a man-made tank.

Remember Purandara's "kereya neeranu kerege chelli varava paDedavarante kANiro" - "Feel as if you were graced by a boon by pouring the water from the tank, back into it"

-Ramakriya

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 02 Apr 2008, 22:06

Ahiri wrote:Is Tu badee Masha allah kahe Abdulla
from His highness Abdullah in ragam Patdip ?

Thanks !!

As for as I can remember the tune of the song, the answer is yes !

-Ramakriya

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 02 Apr 2008, 22:19

excellent stuff - nandagopal and Ahiri!

So it is vakra in avarohana (p-g-m-g-r-s)? I didnt pay attention to Sanjay's rendition - but I thought Lji's post didnt have it so?

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2008, 22:50

Thanks Ramakriya!
Now the lake is 'chrystal clear'

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Apr 2008, 22:58

here is the highness abdulla
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/thoo- ... 1256830340

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 02 Apr 2008, 23:09

mnsriram wrote:You should also listen to Sri Nandagopal's version of the varNam. I request Sri Nandagopal to post his audio whenever possible.

Nandagopal, I second that request!!!

Not that Ahiri's version was in anyway lacking

, but I do like to hear composers sing their own creations - it will be akin to a parent presenting their accomplished children to the world at large, I think.
Lord knows, we do not get too many such opportunites (of composers singing their creations, I mean!;))!

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 03 Apr 2008, 00:42

Arun: The HM version of Patdeep emphasizes the â€œdhanasri angâ€

meena · Post by **meena** » 03 Apr 2008, 01:29

Nandagopal
Its refreshing to hear a varnam in rare raga .Is this ur first comp? When did u compose this? Congrats

Ahiri
U have a sweet voice, hope to hear more .

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 03 Apr 2008, 01:38

Thanks nandagopal! Nice to also know how you got the inspiration

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 03 Apr 2008, 14:59

thank you vasantakokilam, meena and arun. i'm not sure if these songs have been discussed before but here are links to Lata and Rafi singing patdeep -
http://www.chandrakantha.com/raga_raag/ ... tdeep.html

rajeeram · Post by **rajeeram** » 03 Apr 2008, 21:27

Nandagopal and Ahiri,

Wonderful composition and rendition. Thanks to Coolkarniji for the upload.

For some reason it triggered long-forgotten memories of learning a varnam in Kalyanavasantam in Tamil, Annalin Aanai Endi Annai Janakiyai tedi., I guess probably because that is also on Hanuman.

Thanks again