Musician K.N.Shashikiran talks about how a student should develop manodharma:
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2006/05/12/stor ... 760200.htm
Manodharma
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coolkarni
a few basic questions from a Lay Person
What exactly is manodharma ?
Is it something that some musicians have and some dont ?
Or something that all singers do have , but in various degrees.
Or is it a kind of a matching exercise where a rasika's manodharma has to match with the artist's.
Or is it a combination of many things that an artist tries to get right in a performance , with various degrees of success on different days.
Or something that separates the boys from the men.
What exactly is manodharma ?
Is it something that some musicians have and some dont ?
Or something that all singers do have , but in various degrees.
Or is it a kind of a matching exercise where a rasika's manodharma has to match with the artist's.
Or is it a combination of many things that an artist tries to get right in a performance , with various degrees of success on different days.
Or something that separates the boys from the men.
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Lakshman
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To my understanding manodharma is the sum total of knowledge one acquires of the technical aspects of Karnatak music and uses it to produce exteperoneous music. Of course the quality varies from person to person and, needless to say, improves with expereience. Many artists use it skillfully and are extremely successful while others do not do so well.
One doesn't have to be a concert singer to demonstrate manodharma. SRJ is a fine example.
One doesn't have to be a concert singer to demonstrate manodharma. SRJ is a fine example.
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vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
manOdharma is kalpana sangeetham and Lakshman has put it in the proper context. It requires knowledge, skill and imagination to come up with unique AlapanA, special sangathis, niraval and kalpana swarams every time they perform.
Just yesterday, I was thinking if it will be "proper" to ask a CM musician how much of the kalpana sangeetham in practice is really extemporaneous and how much is pre-built either consciously or unconsciously. I guess one can analyze existing concerts of the same singer and see how much overlap exists. In fact, repeated patterns are celebrated as bAni as in the case of MMI.
I also know that once the performer is in the 'raga' zone, one does not need any pre-built or rehearsed sequences...It just comes out and every time it is different. There are million possibilities, so no one is going to run out of new ideas.
The closest I can relate to is comparing it with public speaking. One can prepare it ahead of time, get it all internalized and just go reproduce it..That would correspond to Western Classical Music methodology. Second is, you prepare ahead of time to get a good idea on what you are going to speak, get it internalized but while speaking there are some variations from speech to speech to convey the same idea... This is similar to some genres where they sing pretty much the same thing every evening but to add freshness they change it a little bit, sort of like just sangathi differences.. Third is, you practice hard to get the abstract idea of what you are going to speak, have some idea on the structure to get started but while speaking it is all extemporaneous. It is not what ever comes to the speaker's mind, but once the speaker is in the 'zone', words can pour out that is completely unrehearsed but still keeping with in the bounds of what needs to be communicated. This last one is how I can relate to the top quality manOdharma exhibited by CM artists...
Just yesterday, I was thinking if it will be "proper" to ask a CM musician how much of the kalpana sangeetham in practice is really extemporaneous and how much is pre-built either consciously or unconsciously. I guess one can analyze existing concerts of the same singer and see how much overlap exists. In fact, repeated patterns are celebrated as bAni as in the case of MMI.
I also know that once the performer is in the 'raga' zone, one does not need any pre-built or rehearsed sequences...It just comes out and every time it is different. There are million possibilities, so no one is going to run out of new ideas.
The closest I can relate to is comparing it with public speaking. One can prepare it ahead of time, get it all internalized and just go reproduce it..That would correspond to Western Classical Music methodology. Second is, you prepare ahead of time to get a good idea on what you are going to speak, get it internalized but while speaking there are some variations from speech to speech to convey the same idea... This is similar to some genres where they sing pretty much the same thing every evening but to add freshness they change it a little bit, sort of like just sangathi differences.. Third is, you practice hard to get the abstract idea of what you are going to speak, have some idea on the structure to get started but while speaking it is all extemporaneous. It is not what ever comes to the speaker's mind, but once the speaker is in the 'zone', words can pour out that is completely unrehearsed but still keeping with in the bounds of what needs to be communicated. This last one is how I can relate to the top quality manOdharma exhibited by CM artists...
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mohan
- Posts: 2808
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 16:52
Here is a layman's article which I wrote a few years ago about the different types of manodharma:
http://carnaticcorner.com/articles/improvisation.html
It is inevitable that certain elements of the manodharma aspects are repeated from concert to concert. A musician will practice certain phrases and they will be repeated during a concert. Of course, there may be subtle differences in each rendition.
The public speaking analogy is good one.
http://carnaticcorner.com/articles/improvisation.html
It is inevitable that certain elements of the manodharma aspects are repeated from concert to concert. A musician will practice certain phrases and they will be repeated during a concert. Of course, there may be subtle differences in each rendition.
The public speaking analogy is good one.
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drshrikaanth
- Posts: 4066
- Joined: 26 Mar 2005, 17:01
Mohan
You have done a good job in that article. Certainly more than a layman's writing. There are a few minor points though that could be corrected:- makariNi(not magarini). And MV and HMB need not have been clubbed with GNB and Lalgudi. MV saw his compositions become a rage on concert stages even during his lifetime. So they are not gaining popularity now.
You have done a good job in that article. Certainly more than a layman's writing. There are a few minor points though that could be corrected:- makariNi(not magarini). And MV and HMB need not have been clubbed with GNB and Lalgudi. MV saw his compositions become a rage on concert stages even during his lifetime. So they are not gaining popularity now.
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cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
VK
just speculating.. A simplistic computer program can churn out millions of non-repetitive phrases (adhering to the grammar of the raga. These can be linked up and played too! Many of them will not sound like belonging to the raga since we have not heard them before in any kritis. But they are still kosher. By chance we may even get rakti prayOgas we did not imagine before. In the case of the humans most often they create phrases based on what he/she had heard before. Case in point is Sangita Kalanidhi MC who chooses to entertain us with phrass from familiar kritis. In other words most human kalpana svarams are in fact a few permutaitons and combinations of 'known' phrases. In fact if we heard them often enough we can even predict the flow of phrases. That indeed is not kalpana but learnng by rote. There are indeed concert artists who keep a book in front to sing kalpana svaram. But then where do we draw the line. Is the computer with AI better than the human (just like the Computer chess program which has beaten the best?
just speculating.. A simplistic computer program can churn out millions of non-repetitive phrases (adhering to the grammar of the raga. These can be linked up and played too! Many of them will not sound like belonging to the raga since we have not heard them before in any kritis. But they are still kosher. By chance we may even get rakti prayOgas we did not imagine before. In the case of the humans most often they create phrases based on what he/she had heard before. Case in point is Sangita Kalanidhi MC who chooses to entertain us with phrass from familiar kritis. In other words most human kalpana svarams are in fact a few permutaitons and combinations of 'known' phrases. In fact if we heard them often enough we can even predict the flow of phrases. That indeed is not kalpana but learnng by rote. There are indeed concert artists who keep a book in front to sing kalpana svaram. But then where do we draw the line. Is the computer with AI better than the human (just like the Computer chess program which has beaten the best?
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cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
Mohan
I better not name names since this Forum maintains an august resapect for all performing artistes.
But anytime an artiste opens a book in front of him you know for sure that he is not too sure about what he is singing. As I belong to a different generation I am used to artistes who had a phenominal memory and also who did asura saadhakam. When they got very old they used to depend on their sishyas to bale them out!
Recently I heard that one of the 'young' artiste had a laptop in front of him;-) I don't know how good his kalpana svarams were
I better not name names since this Forum maintains an august resapect for all performing artistes.
But anytime an artiste opens a book in front of him you know for sure that he is not too sure about what he is singing. As I belong to a different generation I am used to artistes who had a phenominal memory and also who did asura saadhakam. When they got very old they used to depend on their sishyas to bale them out!
Recently I heard that one of the 'young' artiste had a laptop in front of him;-) I don't know how good his kalpana svarams were
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Vocalist
- Posts: 1030
- Joined: 19 Feb 2006, 18:53
LOL @ a laptop!
There have been amateurs who have got their gurus to write out alapana/swara passages for them. Worse, they stared at the book during these "manodharma" passages. Even worse, they announced it as 'manodharma passages' quite literally.
Worst, he got the swarasthana wrong!! (not sure if that's how it should be spelt)
There have been amateurs who have got their gurus to write out alapana/swara passages for them. Worse, they stared at the book during these "manodharma" passages. Even worse, they announced it as 'manodharma passages' quite literally.
Worst, he got the swarasthana wrong!! (not sure if that's how it should be spelt)