Dr Balamurali Krishna's concert in Bengaluru Ganesha Utsava-
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Shree Vidyaranya Yuvaka Sangha is celebrating it's 46th Ganesha Festival in Sprawling Acharya Pathasala Grounds in Bangalore South. EXcellent Arrangements for the artistes as well as for the audience.
Dr Balamurali's concert was on the last day of the cultural programme and the crowd must have been easily 15,000.
The concert could start only at 8:45 PM due to so many problems , major being the Traffic Hazard.
Dr Balamurali announced he will singing self composed Ganesha Songs and thereby the concert will be different.
He started off with his composition "gam ganapathe" in the raga "ganapathi" which has only 3 swaras. s g & p.
Second item was a Varnam in Kharaharapriya on Lord Ganapthi presented to the audience for the first time. The varnam had lyrics embedded which followed the Swarams.
Next came "sidHI nAyakam saphali kruthOham" in Amritha Varshini(r).
Fourth item was "ganAdhipam " in nATai (r) with a nice chiTaswaram.
The concert pivoted on his famous Arabhi song " mahAdEva sutha maham"
Arabhi was elaborated followed by the song. The swaraprastaram was enjoyable being in the typical thristhAyi Balamurali style. Thani avrathanam followed.
"sarasara samarai" of Thyagaraja in Kuntalavarali followed by Sadashiva Brahmendra Song.
The crowd had become restless due to delayed starting of the concert.
Prince Rama Varmaji was initially seen on the dias, I am sure he will give much better appreciation than what I have given.
Dr Balamurali's concert was on the last day of the cultural programme and the crowd must have been easily 15,000.
The concert could start only at 8:45 PM due to so many problems , major being the Traffic Hazard.
Dr Balamurali announced he will singing self composed Ganesha Songs and thereby the concert will be different.
He started off with his composition "gam ganapathe" in the raga "ganapathi" which has only 3 swaras. s g & p.
Second item was a Varnam in Kharaharapriya on Lord Ganapthi presented to the audience for the first time. The varnam had lyrics embedded which followed the Swarams.
Next came "sidHI nAyakam saphali kruthOham" in Amritha Varshini(r).
Fourth item was "ganAdhipam " in nATai (r) with a nice chiTaswaram.
The concert pivoted on his famous Arabhi song " mahAdEva sutha maham"
Arabhi was elaborated followed by the song. The swaraprastaram was enjoyable being in the typical thristhAyi Balamurali style. Thani avrathanam followed.
"sarasara samarai" of Thyagaraja in Kuntalavarali followed by Sadashiva Brahmendra Song.
The crowd had become restless due to delayed starting of the concert.
Prince Rama Varmaji was initially seen on the dias, I am sure he will give much better appreciation than what I have given.
Last edited by vs_manjunath on 14 Sep 2008, 16:26, edited 1 time in total.
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I want to say that three swara ragas are stretching innovation beyond limits.
Imagine a raga with Just Sa Ga Pa, wat is he trying to prove? Innovation within the boundaries has, is and will be the greatness of our music. I hope Mr BMK understands that. Popularity shouldnt moot such outright craziness.
With his astounding voice and Abhara Jnanam, he can do a world of good by sticking to the tradition and bounds of our music. Anyways, time is the test. I would say a Sa ga Pa is one of our ragas half explored.
This is a free country after all. You cannot arrest him for finding a new Raga. But , I am happy, that i could vent my anguish in this forum.
Long Live Sangeetham (not Some Geetham).
Imagine a raga with Just Sa Ga Pa, wat is he trying to prove? Innovation within the boundaries has, is and will be the greatness of our music. I hope Mr BMK understands that. Popularity shouldnt moot such outright craziness.
With his astounding voice and Abhara Jnanam, he can do a world of good by sticking to the tradition and bounds of our music. Anyways, time is the test. I would say a Sa ga Pa is one of our ragas half explored.
This is a free country after all. You cannot arrest him for finding a new Raga. But , I am happy, that i could vent my anguish in this forum.
Long Live Sangeetham (not Some Geetham).
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Coolkapali,
I would like to say that there was a short discussion in our thread earlier on a 3 svara based composition by Ilayaraja.
see link below:
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3879
I personally think you may have overeacted. When I listened to Illayaraja's number I felt it was fantastic. Improbable though it may appear Illayaraja has his audience spell bound with the 3 notes S,R & G . However he does make judicious use of the higher octaves too.
That BMK is one of the greatest singers is beyond doubt. However he is also a Master Composer of the highest order. I feel we should listen to the composition before commenting and maybe you would not be anguished after all
I would like to say that there was a short discussion in our thread earlier on a 3 svara based composition by Ilayaraja.
see link below:
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3879
I personally think you may have overeacted. When I listened to Illayaraja's number I felt it was fantastic. Improbable though it may appear Illayaraja has his audience spell bound with the 3 notes S,R & G . However he does make judicious use of the higher octaves too.
That BMK is one of the greatest singers is beyond doubt. However he is also a Master Composer of the highest order. I feel we should listen to the composition before commenting and maybe you would not be anguished after all

Last edited by cienu on 15 Sep 2008, 22:07, edited 1 time in total.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtnaR4Be18scienu wrote:I feel we should listen to the composition before commenting and maybe you would not be anguished after all
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We are not for a moment contesting whether BMK is a great singer or composer. I am only questioning the authenticity of the raga. The Sangeetha Ratnakara mentions certain parameters within which the ragas must be created. And again, our ancients beleived that each Raga has its own Devatha. Sa Ri Ga, for me is not a new Raga. It can be either Mohanam, Shankarabharanam, Hamsadwani, Bhoopalam etc etc, which is only half explored. The resultant sound might be good, but why name it as a new Raga. Our system of music has stood the test of time, such unnecessary intrusions are definitely avoidable. Just count the number of new ragas that can be created overnight with a combination of 3 swaras................Hmmm. Hope you get my point.
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I and my wife (who has more music knowledge than me) have enjoyed the composition though the alapanas in such ragas are difficult (for me) to appreciate !!
Creating a raaga is one thing, but creating a pleasant composition is completely another !
Creating a raaga is one thing, but creating a pleasant composition is completely another !
Last edited by vsarmaiitm on 16 Sep 2008, 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Dear CM lover, ( i hope u sincerely love the art as your name suggests)
The Trinities will be better off and happier, if the tradition of Carnatic music is respected. The last thing they want will be a raga tat has only two swaras, no shadjam, just ri and dha, sung in Madhyamam and over and above that named as Muthu, after Deekshithar that is.
I am afraid , i cannot subscribe to such ill found fantasies, even if it were by somebody as popular as BMK.
The Trinities will be better off and happier, if the tradition of Carnatic music is respected. The last thing they want will be a raga tat has only two swaras, no shadjam, just ri and dha, sung in Madhyamam and over and above that named as Muthu, after Deekshithar that is.
I am afraid , i cannot subscribe to such ill found fantasies, even if it were by somebody as popular as BMK.
Last edited by coolkapali on 17 Sep 2008, 11:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Innovations in CM are not to be derided upon. For example if the Trinity were aware of the ragas (e.g., sunAdavinOdini (of MV which was wonderfully habdled by BMK), or valaji/mohanakalyani/.. and a host of others by the genius HMB) they would not have resisted composing in them. Even the melodious sindhubhairavi was ignored by them though Svaati handled it deftly. Granting BMK is a maverick we cannot belittle his service to CM over the years. After all he hails from the sishya parampara of Thyagaraja himself!
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Tell me one composition with just three swaras by any one of the Trinities or Swathi or HKB or Subbraya Sastri or PS, GKB etc etc.
And for ur information Navarasakannada is not just four swaras. The avarohanam has 6 swaras. Please dont compare BMK with the Trinities. Very few souls are born like the Trinities, and such souls are Nada Yogis who will never perform for the crowd or money.
Also understand that I am not questioning BMK's genius for a moment.
And for ur information Navarasakannada is not just four swaras. The avarohanam has 6 swaras. Please dont compare BMK with the Trinities. Very few souls are born like the Trinities, and such souls are Nada Yogis who will never perform for the crowd or money.
Also understand that I am not questioning BMK's genius for a moment.
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Just break out of the Trinity obsession if you want to see progress in CM! CM is not a closed book!
BMK's mahati is a beautiful raga whcih has only 4 svaras. It became an outright celebrity in the film world. Good CM is not the private property of any particular language, period or personality!
I remember how HMB was ridiculed for his innovations in CM during his life time by the then CM clique until his greatness was realized too late. GNB was also shunned for his innovations in the early days but now he has a niche in CM named as 'GNB BANi' !
Old is not (always) gold; nor is new pewter (always
BMK's mahati is a beautiful raga whcih has only 4 svaras. It became an outright celebrity in the film world. Good CM is not the private property of any particular language, period or personality!
I remember how HMB was ridiculed for his innovations in CM during his life time by the then CM clique until his greatness was realized too late. GNB was also shunned for his innovations in the early days but now he has a niche in CM named as 'GNB BANi' !
Old is not (always) gold; nor is new pewter (always

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This is complete nonsense, no one here is doubting Balamuralikrishna's vidwat. Least you could do is respect members sentiments and refrain from pontificating sitting on a high pedastal.cmlover wrote:Just break out of the Trinity obsession if you want to see progress in CM! CM is not a closed book!
BMK's mahati is a beautiful raga whcih has only 4 svaras. It became an outright celebrity in the film world. Good CM is not the private property of any particular language, period or personality!
I remember how HMB was ridiculed for his innovations in CM during his life time by the then CM clique until his greatness was realized too late. GNB was also shunned for his innovations in the early days but now he has a niche in CM named as 'GNB BANi' !
Old is not (always) gold; nor is new pewter (always
Last edited by musicfan_4201 on 19 Sep 2008, 09:59, edited 1 time in total.
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CM Lover, I am sorry to say that you have completely missed the point. Anyways, seems most of the others have got it. So I will leave it at that.
Also dude, CM is neither an open book for anybody to scribble watever they want. Tat is why it is called Classical and not Lighty or Film. Do u understand why Mahathi Rag is very popular in the FILM field now????
Also dude, CM is neither an open book for anybody to scribble watever they want. Tat is why it is called Classical and not Lighty or Film. Do u understand why Mahathi Rag is very popular in the FILM field now????
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There is something called a tradition which everyone follows. People experimenting beyond a point is not always appreciated and digested. If you believe SSI (to be pIthamaha, I beleive so), he had said in an interview that he does not want to compose any kriti or even a thillana. He has said that there is so much to learn from what has been created by these Giants and he will limit it to learning them. But that does not mean others should follow that principle. BMK has been self promoting his own kritis / ragas and has also been experimenting with new ideas. Beyond a point these STINK. If he sings one kriti in a concert it is ok, but 10 kritis, I think is an over kill.
The very few people who have done that (with the idea of CM being an open book) have faded. The youngster musicians of today have imbibed the traditional music of the past masters and I believe CM is still popular and will be popular!
Traditions are to be followed and not meant to be broken. Innovations in ant art form is acceptable to an extent.
Classic example of artists who have faded away by virtue of being TOO INNOVATIVE - BMK, Kunnakudi, Mandolin S, MF Hussain et all...
Therefore Trinity obsession cannot be broken. They are the Bhagawat Gita/Bible / Quaran to Carnatic music.
The very few people who have done that (with the idea of CM being an open book) have faded. The youngster musicians of today have imbibed the traditional music of the past masters and I believe CM is still popular and will be popular!
Traditions are to be followed and not meant to be broken. Innovations in ant art form is acceptable to an extent.
Classic example of artists who have faded away by virtue of being TOO INNOVATIVE - BMK, Kunnakudi, Mandolin S, MF Hussain et all...
Therefore Trinity obsession cannot be broken. They are the Bhagawat Gita/Bible / Quaran to Carnatic music.
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From CMLover's previous posts I get the feeling that CMLover must be a sensitive, dignified and reasonable individual. I salute you Sir/Madam, for not just the views you express but also the way you express them.
It isn't by accident that there are more lawyers and doctors around than singers. And similarly it isn't by accident again that there are more singers around than composers. And it is quite normal for the average fellow not to appreciate a genius during his lifetime, as you rightly said in the case of MB and GNB or for that matter Thyagaraja himself who had relentless trouble from his brother. Fortunately Thyagaraja had the stuff, the guts and the conviction to push things to another level from the way things were when he appeared on the scene, as did Harikesanallur, as does Mangalampalli. Their critics spew their guts out in print and in forums like this. But change, growth
and progress cannot be stopped. And there are always sane individuals like CMLover who undertstand the value of things in the proper context and perspective. I posted this comment not to argue with the others since I have better things to do with my time than to do so, but to express my appreciation to CMLover. I am with you all the way !
It isn't by accident that there are more lawyers and doctors around than singers. And similarly it isn't by accident again that there are more singers around than composers. And it is quite normal for the average fellow not to appreciate a genius during his lifetime, as you rightly said in the case of MB and GNB or for that matter Thyagaraja himself who had relentless trouble from his brother. Fortunately Thyagaraja had the stuff, the guts and the conviction to push things to another level from the way things were when he appeared on the scene, as did Harikesanallur, as does Mangalampalli. Their critics spew their guts out in print and in forums like this. But change, growth
and progress cannot be stopped. And there are always sane individuals like CMLover who undertstand the value of things in the proper context and perspective. I posted this comment not to argue with the others since I have better things to do with my time than to do so, but to express my appreciation to CMLover. I am with you all the way !
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@ Layavinyasa: Three cheers to you Sir/Madam. I was thinking of whether to write a response or to continue minding my own business. I have only limited knowledge about Classical Music, yet I am a passionate listener who appreciates good music in any form.Your reponse has expressed my sentiments too in a very articulate manner. I couldnt have said it better than the way you have expressed it here. Kudos to you Ji and to Sri/Smt CMlover.
Last edited by devi on 19 Sep 2008, 17:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Faded away! :rolleyes: I beg to disagree.musicfan_4201 wrote:Classic example of artists who have faded away by virtue of being TOO INNOVATIVE - BMK, Kunnakudi, Mandolin S, MF Hussain et all...
I think all the 4 whom you have mentioned have carved a niche for themselves in their respective fields. And Mandolin who must be in his mid thirties still has a number of musical years left in him

Innovation re-energises the art form and is therefore absolutely necessary. In that sense "too innovative" appears to be an oxymoron as innovators, by virtue of being innovative have to necessarily push the envelope and extend frontiers.
After all were not the Trinity great innovators of their times ? Was not Thyagaraja being innovative when he composed 2 Operas & Syama Sastri with his Swarajathis & MD who incorporated so many Hindustani Ragas into his CM compositions , so much so, that today many people consider Brindavan Saranga and Dwijavanti to be Carnatic Ragas. Not to speak of his Nottuswaras !
At the end of the day, Successful innovation is not about ideas or inventions; It’s about people.
Last edited by cienu on 19 Sep 2008, 19:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Umm... coolkapali...coolkapali wrote:CM Lover, I am sorry to say that you have completely missed the point. Anyways, seems most of the others have got it. So I will leave it at that.
If 'most of the others' remain silent it could be attributed to a number of reasons including mine of not wanting to get into a poisonous argument with someone without the 'open mind'. Please don't assume that we agree with you.
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It is necessary to have objectivity while evaluating an individual or an event than blind faith. First, I am not offended by the language used by some of you since you belong to a different generation and it is not enough to have 'cool' in your handle to being 'hot and effervescent' as much as I have 'CM and Lover' in my handle but lack objectivity. I could keep quiet since 'cienu' has partly answered the unwelcome 'barbs' effectively. But if you are interested in a 'civilized' debate I am game (but never sitting on a high pedestal). A few words by way of introduction.
At first let me assure you that I am partly coeval with SSI (I mean during his hey-days) and had a close association with him and was not privy to his views and prejudices. He did struggle to establish the genius of Svaati who was considered a new-comer usurping the territory (?high pedestal) of the Trinity. He himself was derided upon when he introduced fast swaram singing (Jet Speed Srini (though there were no Jets at that time
) in his younger days which were ridiculed by the 'classicists'. He in his turn refused to recogize PSivan in his early days for his compositions in the 'wrong language'. Let us now go back 2.5 centuries. There was the genius OVK who had 'invented' most of what Thyagaraja later re-discovered. He was considered a 'mad' or maverick composer and was ignored for centuries as we now realize his CM excellence (as he is being discovered by the efforts of NKB and ravikiran). Thyagaraja himself had enough CM available (he was an expert singing Purandara kirtans) though he composed from an innate urge (let us leave out Divinity for the present) to express himself musically (and we are grateful!). In fact Thyagaraja himself encouraged others to experiment and express themelves (e.g., GKB, and a host of his shishyas). Even he was not fully appreciated till long after his demise (thanks to his flourishing sishya parampara though some of the later ones were 'fanatical' about other forms of CM
MD was indeed the true 'innovator' who discovered the power of the Sanskrit language and established it as the prime 'lingua carnatica'. SS is the dark horse grudgingly being accorded the Trinity Status whose greatness has yet to be discovered ....
Even during the last century MS was considered an outsider since she chose to sing bhajans/abhangs/... and also songs in Tamil and look liberties with the ragas which the 'people' appreciated. It took a struggle to have her recognized as SK perhaps too late, only after she was known Internationaly! One more proof of 'male chauvinism' among the die-hards of the so called custodians of CM. By the by the'C' stands for 'Carnatic' (not a petrified 'Classical' and s such C stands for Catholic tastes which symbolized the South India (and rightly the British named the region Carnatic). The moment we start excluding
genius' like santhanam, KJY, BMK. Mandolin Srinivas, Kadri, Prasanna, even up-and-coming Keyboard Satya ... from the folds of CM we are digging the grave and doing an injustice to the art itself! Fortunately the vast majority of us are not Trinity-bound-blind-folded and narrow-minded to eschew innovations and are Catholic in our tastes a much as is our Hindu Religion. That is enough for the present.
By the by don't call me a 'dude' which gives a 'bad taste' in my aging ears. Confine your 'high tech' lingo to your Office and learn to be polite in this Forum!
At first let me assure you that I am partly coeval with SSI (I mean during his hey-days) and had a close association with him and was not privy to his views and prejudices. He did struggle to establish the genius of Svaati who was considered a new-comer usurping the territory (?high pedestal) of the Trinity. He himself was derided upon when he introduced fast swaram singing (Jet Speed Srini (though there were no Jets at that time


Even during the last century MS was considered an outsider since she chose to sing bhajans/abhangs/... and also songs in Tamil and look liberties with the ragas which the 'people' appreciated. It took a struggle to have her recognized as SK perhaps too late, only after she was known Internationaly! One more proof of 'male chauvinism' among the die-hards of the so called custodians of CM. By the by the'C' stands for 'Carnatic' (not a petrified 'Classical' and s such C stands for Catholic tastes which symbolized the South India (and rightly the British named the region Carnatic). The moment we start excluding
genius' like santhanam, KJY, BMK. Mandolin Srinivas, Kadri, Prasanna, even up-and-coming Keyboard Satya ... from the folds of CM we are digging the grave and doing an injustice to the art itself! Fortunately the vast majority of us are not Trinity-bound-blind-folded and narrow-minded to eschew innovations and are Catholic in our tastes a much as is our Hindu Religion. That is enough for the present.
By the by don't call me a 'dude' which gives a 'bad taste' in my aging ears. Confine your 'high tech' lingo to your Office and learn to be polite in this Forum!
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Most rasikAs on this forum are indebted to CML. His knowledge in music, literature (sanskrit, tamizh among others), his scholarship in his own field (psychology) and many other branches of study, his communicative skills and above all, an open mind, endears him to most of us. It is surprising that the 'open minded' quality seems to be shared by the older members here!
We may have many scholars here (more than in any other forum) perhaps, but to bring regular rasikAs (like me) together to exchange thoughts about CM freely, you need cementing forces like CML. Some of us here try to emulate him . You need more than scholars (a very valuable asset, I don't deny--and he is one too) to help an active forum like this.
And yet, without innovations (of the valuable kind, of course), art gets stagnant. For those who only see CM as solely an aid for their bhakti, and for those who think that CM can be savored only as antiques and not as a living, breathing art (both have a place in the contemporary scene), these experiments are difficult to deal with, I understand.
As life goes on, we incorporate products of science and innovations into our lives. Surely, experiments of merit in music--not anything and everything in the name of novelty--but experiments of substance and meaning can be viewed as steps in our efforts in adding to the treasures of yesteryears.
Then again, some of us old timers here are considered by a few as 'not acting our age'! So what? Vive la difference and kudos to reinvention, I would say!
There, CML! I am also open game now for an attack or two
We may have many scholars here (more than in any other forum) perhaps, but to bring regular rasikAs (like me) together to exchange thoughts about CM freely, you need cementing forces like CML. Some of us here try to emulate him . You need more than scholars (a very valuable asset, I don't deny--and he is one too) to help an active forum like this.
And yet, without innovations (of the valuable kind, of course), art gets stagnant. For those who only see CM as solely an aid for their bhakti, and for those who think that CM can be savored only as antiques and not as a living, breathing art (both have a place in the contemporary scene), these experiments are difficult to deal with, I understand.
As life goes on, we incorporate products of science and innovations into our lives. Surely, experiments of merit in music--not anything and everything in the name of novelty--but experiments of substance and meaning can be viewed as steps in our efforts in adding to the treasures of yesteryears.
Then again, some of us old timers here are considered by a few as 'not acting our age'! So what? Vive la difference and kudos to reinvention, I would say!
There, CML! I am also open game now for an attack or two

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Hi,
With so many discussions around, I want to say that I am not able to enjoy BMK. His voice used to be great. he was great once. Recently I listened to BMK's latest album. Couldnot understand much, raga alapana sounds bit alien. Jambavans like SSI, MMI at their matured age used to deliver simplified CM music which was very enjoyable. Someone said "some geetham" which is very correct.
With so many discussions around, I want to say that I am not able to enjoy BMK. His voice used to be great. he was great once. Recently I listened to BMK's latest album. Couldnot understand much, raga alapana sounds bit alien. Jambavans like SSI, MMI at their matured age used to deliver simplified CM music which was very enjoyable. Someone said "some geetham" which is very correct.
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Here is a better link to BMk's three note svara. I belive it was recorded at the telugu association of NA a few years back!
http://rapidshare.com/files/146639472/0 ... vp.rm.html
Before you 'cavil' you have to realize how difficult it is to stick to shruti during such gymnastics. BMK has a perfect adherence to shadjam, sadharana gandharam and pancamam and he has done with marvelous precision without touching other svaras. I have a visual proof which I can post (if you are a dablbler like me
He does have to shriek a bit to traverse from pancamam to tara shadjam but blame it on his age and 1 kaTTai shruti (he used to be 5 in his hey-days and could traverse three sthayis 'anAyasam'
(KJY failed to match him in a contest !)
His svara prasthaaram is amazing indeed! (of course according to me
http://rapidshare.com/files/146639472/0 ... vp.rm.html
Before you 'cavil' you have to realize how difficult it is to stick to shruti during such gymnastics. BMK has a perfect adherence to shadjam, sadharana gandharam and pancamam and he has done with marvelous precision without touching other svaras. I have a visual proof which I can post (if you are a dablbler like me


His svara prasthaaram is amazing indeed! (of course according to me

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always a slow and steady innovation is accepted in any art form but a sudden and abrupt deviation is not palatable and usually sounds as a rebel form and chaotic. but if one is inclined to do so he should christen it with a new terminology for his musical form. but in most cases people never do it with the intention of contributing to music but only to bring attention.
A classic example was Andre Agassi in tennis that every one knew not because of his titles won ( he has won a very few grand slam)
but for his shaved head , earings and all tattoos. ) he was more popular than his contemperories. music fan's mentioning of some artistes falls into those categories. BMK of course is brilliant but was more bent on attracting people. Kunnakudi earned all the popularity money and fame, but not a single soul ever wanted to follow his style. Another classic example was fiddle chowdiah. I have heard people not knowing carnatic music are aware of his 7 stringed stunts. but was there anyone who followed it. it used to be a chaotic music.
I am not certainly against innovation. that is the part of evolution . but the object should be music but not for attractions and seeking attention. some may succeed in it but the style would be ephemeral and woudl fade away with the person like that in the case of Kunnakudi.
A classic example was Andre Agassi in tennis that every one knew not because of his titles won ( he has won a very few grand slam)
but for his shaved head , earings and all tattoos. ) he was more popular than his contemperories. music fan's mentioning of some artistes falls into those categories. BMK of course is brilliant but was more bent on attracting people. Kunnakudi earned all the popularity money and fame, but not a single soul ever wanted to follow his style. Another classic example was fiddle chowdiah. I have heard people not knowing carnatic music are aware of his 7 stringed stunts. but was there anyone who followed it. it used to be a chaotic music.
I am not certainly against innovation. that is the part of evolution . but the object should be music but not for attractions and seeking attention. some may succeed in it but the style would be ephemeral and woudl fade away with the person like that in the case of Kunnakudi.
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Dr. Balamuralikrishna on Tradition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfVufU_vC-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfVufU_vC-0
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Well done! Devi. Some time ago Kalpakam Mami demonstrated traditional singing of MD which was quite different. For that matter why don't we sing according to Dhanammal tradition? BMK is quite right about the way singing of Thyagaraja kriti has changed over time and each 'famous' singer claims that they are the classical' ones 

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Well saidcmlover wrote:Just break out of the Trinity obsession if you want to see progress in CM! CM is not a closed book!
BMK's mahati is a beautiful raga whcih has only 4 svaras. It became an outright celebrity in the film world. Good CM is not the private property of any particular language, period or personality!
I remember how HMB was ridiculed for his innovations in CM during his life time by the then CM clique until his greatness was realized too late. GNB was also shunned for his innovations in the early days but now he has a niche in CM named as 'GNB BANi' !
Old is not (always) gold; nor is new pewter (always

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Suresh,sureshjm wrote:A classic example was Andre Agassi in tennis that every one knew not because of his titles won ( he has won a very few grand slam)
but for his shaved head , earings and all tattoos. ) he was more popular than his contemperories.
Being a keen Tennis follower I could not agree with your statement.
Agassi is the only player to have won all the Big 4 titles (which comprise the Grand Slam) since Rod Laver, apart from an Olympic Gold. Even his great contemporary, Pete Sampras and today's genius Roger Federer have failed to achieve this , not to speak to earlier giants like Bjorn Borg and John McEnroe.And along with Jimmy Connors , he had the best return of serve in the game of tennis.
He shaved his head to conceal a receding hair line

In the context of the debate, I had to clarify. I hope this does not degenerate into a tennis thread

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KV had accompanied all the famous musicians in his younger days and has received kudos from them. During his later days he decided to chalk out an independant route and some of his explorations are outstanding. Of course some are novel and require effort to understand. Many shunned him for his mannerisms and make-up more than for his playing abilities. His contributions to raga reserch and music therapy (which is now officially recognized) are saliient points which have been pursued also by BMK and the (Late) S Balachandar, granted each have their quirks as does every genius. Why should we try to put everybody in the same mold asking them to sing the same monotonous pattern? Did we expect MD and SS who knew and appreciated good music not to have developed their individual genius but to tow the line of Thyagaraja since they were coeval ? Was there no element of 'jealousy' among them since they did not appreciate each other? it took King SvAti from far off country to invite Thyagaraja to enrich his Darbar while all these three lived in the same city within a block of each other
By the by did Thyagaraja stop singing as an octogenarian (we know how the human voice will sound at that ipe old age
and then would we have gotten 'Giripai' one of his gems. If Thyagaraja and MD could die singing why should we shakle BMK from practising his art in his old age?


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The vidwat of BMK has not been questioned at all. He is perhaps one of the greatest musicians ever and with a beautiful voice at this age. Sadly I think a few members have piled on upon coolkapali for his views on a 2/3 swara ragas. Even today a concert which has more of vivadhi ragas are not much appreciated.. This has to develop over a period (perhaps more apt the way sureshjm has expressed). As some of you may have views to explore beyond limits, there are people who would like to stick to tradition. What is wrong! It seems freedom of expression is lacking a bit. CMLover IS a highly regarded individual/member in this forum and I laud his multifaceted knowledge. But that does not mean his views should be agreed by everyone always.
Cienu - I suggest you read the post more carefully upon the intent of the post. I did not (again reiterating) comment on the vidwat of BMK and other artists that I had mentioned. By saying fading away, what I meant was the acceptance level
Cienu - I suggest you read the post more carefully upon the intent of the post. I did not (again reiterating) comment on the vidwat of BMK and other artists that I had mentioned. By saying fading away, what I meant was the acceptance level
Last edited by musicfan_4201 on 20 Sep 2008, 08:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Sorry I stand corrected here. what I tried to say perhaps was something like the following and put that inthe wrong way later. I was a tennis player too at national level. In my days we used to watch eachand every match . My period was during Ivan lendl, then edberg and becker and slowly later came into the picture pete sampras. but much before Agassi even won the title he enjoyed a limelight. his first title was the wimbledon .. but people knew him well before that. for his long hair , much before he shaved, his hair waving like that of female players and the kadukkans . he was already in the advertisement of of big companies before he even won his first title.But later he honed himself to be a much better player. So he was very famous before he even won his first title and that is what I am trying to say.
Same here in carnatic music , some people succumb to stunts to climb to stardom. Alas there will be no one to follow that style like in the case of Kunnakudi.
IN MY HUMBLE OPINION INNOVATION IS WELCOME BUT THE OBJECT SHOULD BE GOOD MUSIC IN CONSISTENT WITH THE STANDARDS MEANT. AN ABRUPT DEVIATION CAN ATTRACT THE PUBLICS EYE AND HELP ONE CLIMB THE STARDOM. BUT YOU WOULD NOT LEAVE ANYTHING FOR THE POSTERITY.
Same here in carnatic music , some people succumb to stunts to climb to stardom. Alas there will be no one to follow that style like in the case of Kunnakudi.
IN MY HUMBLE OPINION INNOVATION IS WELCOME BUT THE OBJECT SHOULD BE GOOD MUSIC IN CONSISTENT WITH THE STANDARDS MEANT. AN ABRUPT DEVIATION CAN ATTRACT THE PUBLICS EYE AND HELP ONE CLIMB THE STARDOM. BUT YOU WOULD NOT LEAVE ANYTHING FOR THE POSTERITY.
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That is a saner post music fan! You have every right to your views and have the freedom to express it in a civilized language at this Forum. As much as you expect your views to be respected it is incumbent on you to respect other views as well.
Look at what your friend 'fanatic' wrote which prompted me to respond:
It is getting tiresome and let me call quits but just warn you that any indecent language will not be tolerated at this Forum.
P.S. By the by the beauty of vivadi ragas are to be appreciated to enjoy CM fully. I am glad some pioneers are exploring those unchartered lands.
AsCaptain Kirk would have said:
Let us boldly go into those unexplored lands where the Trinity dreaded to venture.
(to enjoy the full potential and beauty of CM!)
while you may put the Trinity in the pedestal but trash others there may be others who hold a different and even opposite view. In fact CM has no definition. Once eons ago when I asked the question to a famous vidvaan (who must be nameless) pat came the reply " It is what Thyagaraja wrote and sang'. That was the end of my discussion with him since as a confirmed Jihadist he would have assaulted me without hesitation if I had countered him. Fortunately nobody has written a Quran for CMTraditions are to be followed and not meant to be broken. Innovations in ant art form is acceptable to an extent.
Classic example of artists who have faded away by virtue of being TOO INNOVATIVE - BMK, Kunnakudi, Mandolin S, MF Hussain et all...
Therefore Trinity obsession cannot be broken. They are the Bhagawat Gita/Bible / Quaran to Carnatic music.

Look at what your friend 'fanatic' wrote which prompted me to respond:
He apparently is deluded at having a copyright on the CM Bible! Though he has every right to his personal views, I have the equal right to appreciate BMK's INNOVATIONS including his raga Mahati...coolkapali wrote:CM Lover, I am sorry to say that you have completely missed the point. Anyways, seems most of the others have got it. So I will leave it at that.
Also dude, CM is neither an open book for anybody to scribble watever they want. Tat is why it is called Classical and not Lighty or Film. Do u understand why Mahathi Rag is very popular in the FILM field now????
It is getting tiresome and let me call quits but just warn you that any indecent language will not be tolerated at this Forum.
P.S. By the by the beauty of vivadi ragas are to be appreciated to enjoy CM fully. I am glad some pioneers are exploring those unchartered lands.
AsCaptain Kirk would have said:
Let us boldly go into those unexplored lands where the Trinity dreaded to venture.
(to enjoy the full potential and beauty of CM!)
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Cienu ji said "In the context of the debate, I had to clarify. I hope this does not degenerate into a tennis thread
"
At times one might say, "Rise" to a tennis thread rather than "Degenerate"
Heh heh ! As an admirer of Balamurali Sir specifically as a composer, I am happy to see that more than almost four decades after he created his first four note raga, the subject still creates a "Racket" so to speak. And we are long past the days of wooden rackets thanks to the miracles of technology 

At times one might say, "Rise" to a tennis thread rather than "Degenerate"


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balamurali was innovative with a high acumen. alwasy lauded. but sometimes daring . but let us take some that is appeailing and those that does not possess a strong quality. we dont sing all of the trinity songs too. so appreciate BMs work thillanas. but three notes , somehow that is so boring. it will not survive to be used for other compositions except for his flaunting . let us not put BMK into the slot of kunnakudi. they are competely different.
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