Thalams

vini · Post by **vini** » 05 Jun 2006, 12:27

Hi all

Would like to know more about Music used in dance. Infact want to have more theoretical knowledge on thalams ,ragams and gathis used in Bharathnatyam.Pls suggest good books or websites on these aspects of dance .

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 05 Jun 2006, 13:58

Hi Vini,

Thalam is of course very important for dancers, and by thalam I mean nadai. We study the nadais of chathushram, thishram, mishram, khandam, and sankeernam in the thattimettu adavu. Not to undermine the importance of thala knowledge, but many dancers do not concern themselves with the intricacies of specific thala cycles like Triputa (Chathushra Jaathi Triputa is commonly known as Adi), Rupakam, Jhampa, etc. because knowledge of the nadais is usually sufficient for dance. Also, most dance pieces are in Adi, Chathushram Rupakam, or Mishra Chapu, which are not very complex thalams. However, it is never a bad idea to know more about thalam for choreographic purposes and for nattuvangam (probably a must in this case). I have bookmarked a couple sites from when I wanted to know more about thalam myself. These are not resources especially for dancers, but they do shed some light on the topic.

http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/~raman/taala.html
http://sify.com/carnaticmusic/fullstory ... 801&page=1
http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/talams.htm

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Jun 2006, 23:33

Umesh:

It is interesting that you say that for the dancers the 'nadai' is more important than the thala itself. I guess the word itself, meaning gait or walk, came from the dancing discipline. I am now curious about this... In a song, one can feel the difference between a thisra nadai and the standard chathusra nadai. In Bharathanatyam, is that easy to see? Hypothetically, if we turn off the music, is it easy to tell that the dancer is dancing to a thisra nadai? I would think so ( like one can tell if a ball room dancer is doing a Waltz which is sort of like thisram ), Or may be the salangai oli (sound) will give it away any way without having to guess it from the body or foot movements? It will be very illuminating if there is a video clip contrasting the two nadais.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 06 Jun 2006, 02:43

Yes, one should be able to determine what nadai the dancer is performing in even without hearing the music (that is, of course, assuming that the dancer is able to keep thalam accurately). Any adavu can be done in all the 5 nadais... this is hard to describe this without demonstrating it. It is especially obvious what nadai is being employed when the dancer is performing the thattimettu adavu. I can't think of any video clips I have come across that specifically show the difference between the nadais but perhaps I can dig up a few showcasing different nadais. I will post again if I do!

For reference, the nadais in dance are counted like so:

Chathushram (4)
Thakadhimi Thakajhanu

Thishram (3)
Thakita Thakita

Mishram (4+3)
Thakadhimi Thakita

Khandam (5)
Thaka Thakita

Sankeernam (4+5)
Thakadhimi Thaka Thakita

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 06 Jun 2006, 03:01

Umesh: Thanks, looking forward to those clips if you can find them. That will be awesome..

Regarding the 'sollu' equivalent for the nadais...to normalize it across all nadais, what you wrote is for two beats in the case of chathusram and thisram and one beat for kandam, misram and sankeernam, correct?

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 06 Jun 2006, 03:42

Ah, yes, sorry about that! That is correct. I somehow feel it is awkward writing thakadhimi without thakajhanu and leaving thakita all by itself!

vini · Post by **vini** » 07 Jun 2006, 19:48

Interesting discusssion

Well a quick question ,When saying Alaripu played to Adi thalam in thisram , does this means Chatrusra jaathi triputa thalam in thisra nadai
Tha -Ki-Ta ?

Moreover while seeing a dancer dance how do you really get to know whether the alarapu or jathiswaram for eg is in trisram ,chatrusram etc.
Now listening to any dance music how can a lay man having little knowledge of thalams get to easily understand the thalam used for the dance .

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 08 Jun 2006, 08:35

Yes, the basic tala structure is Triputa with Chatushra Jaathi and Tishra Nadai in such an Alarippu. The nadai dictates the feeling of the song, not the jaathi (though the terminology for both is the same, which can be confusing); hence, this alarippu has a feel of three.

The ability to distinguish nadais comes with repeated listening. Each of the nadais has a characteristic feel. For example, listen to these two alarippus:

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/UUb ... As1NMvHdW/

and

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/lqb ... As1NMvHdW/

The first is in Chatushram whereas the second is in Mishram. The two sound very different. I think you'll agree that second sounds more complex.

A great place to listen for the different nadais is in a Thillana, where there is usually a pancha nadai khandi, a section where all 5 nadais are juxtaposed. I remember seeing a good example of this in an online clip, but haven't had time to look for it... soon!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Jun 2006, 08:54

Thanks Umesh. The second one is complex indeed. So complex that I could not get a handle on keeping the thalam for it. I have a feel for thisra nadai and khanda nadai but not for misram, I guess.

When you say "Thillana, where there is usually a pancha nadai khandi".. is that usually in a Bharatha natyam thillana? It will be great if you can find a clip illustrating that. Thanks.

BTW, a slight detour.. Is the nattuvangam person ( nattuvanar? ) supposed to be on the same shruthi with the singer when he is doing just the nattuvangam in a speaking manner?

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 08 Jun 2006, 10:09

I was speaking about a dance Thillana. Here is a clip from the 2005 Natyanjali Chidambaram:

faster connection:
http://66.36.252.46/kb/natyanjali05/ais ... _12200.wmv

slower connection:
http://66.36.252.46/kb/natyanjali05/ais ... _12100.wmv

These are Smt. Anita Guha's students. They do a few dances and the thillana (Nalinakanthi ragam) is the last one, so just skip ahead. The pancha nadai begins just after 24:35. It gets a little messy with the orchestra (I'm guessing the dancers didn't rehearse much with them), but you can clearly see the 5 different nadais featured one after another. Each nadai is repeated 4 times, beginning with sankeernam, then mishram, khandam, tishram, and finally, chatushram. The nadais appear and disappear quickly, so it can be hard to keep track of them. Most of the time, the pallavi of the thillana continues to be sung while the pancha nadai progresses, but I guess the singer opted to stay out of this one.

In regards to your question about the nattuvannar, I'm not quite sure what you mean, and even if I did, I don't know if I could answer properly! Unfortunately, I have not yet had the chance to study nattuvangam, though I can get by reciting the sollus for myself. You might want to consult a dance guru in this matter.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 08 Jun 2006, 21:45

Chandra,
If we look at your question from another point of view, if there was a need to align shrutI's then male nattuvanArs would not be able to conduct a recital with female singers, and vice versa.
Ravi

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 Jun 2006, 21:57

Umesh: That is a great clip to watch... I am able to see some changes in the nadai in the time frame you mentioned but I can not relate it to specific nadais. As you said, there is so much going on and also it goes quite quickly. See if it will help if you provide specific start and end times of the nadais and the overall end time when the panchanadai sequence ends.

Regarding the the shruthi of the nattuvanar...no big issue.. but I was just curious. When there is a nattuvangam over the voice, everything is in sync ( it will be better if the fundamental frequency of the salangai also matches the singer's sruthi ) except for the nattuvanar.. So I wonder if they attempt to match up the sruthis. Ravi, in the case of a male-female combination, they can be an octave apart.... Would that work in the nattuvangam case? or it will be uncomfortable and sound awkward? Of course, the primary objective is to support the dance.

meena · Post by **meena** » 08 Jun 2006, 23:30

umesh/vk

i cant play the thillans clips. can u pl. post the site URL. thanks

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 09 Jun 2006, 00:08

Meena: Umesh may have more to say but this is what I found through google and see if it works for you..( the direct wma link that Umesh provided should have worked...Hmmm ).

http://www.chennaistream.com/kb/natyanjali05/

( look for 12/03/2005 - Aishwarya & Charanya - Guru:Anitha Guha - Baratham )

meena · Post by **meena** » 09 Jun 2006, 00:15

vk

thanks, some odd reason these streaming media ( especially chennai stream) does not work on firefox for me. I have to switch to IE.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 09 Jun 2006, 07:35

Sorry, Meena, I hope you finally got it to work. I only use IE, so I have no idea how firefox operates.

Start/End times...

begins with sankeernam: 24:37

mishram: 24:46

khandam: 24:52

tishram: 24:56

chatushram: 24:59

ends: 25:07

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 09 Jun 2006, 10:18

I think I am beginning to get it. Great reference material for getting a feel for Nadai. Thanks Umesh.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Jun 2006, 00:25

Umesh: I listened to that 30 second section for the 5 nadais quite a few times to get a feel for it. One way in which I can "see" the nadai change is the change in dance speed along with the beat pattern change of the mridangam since at the core a nadai change implies a speed change though not at integral multiples ( in which case it will simply be called a kAlam change ). It is amazing that during that 30 seconds, there is also so much choreography to accompany the nadai change.

Just for my clarification, during these 30 seconds, is the sub-division count of the main beat (nadais), is that all happening with in one beat or over two beats? There is so much going on, I could not keep track of the main 8 beats of the thalam.

After the 30 second period, do they switch to chathusram?

One non-nadai question... Starting at 26:42 ( charanam of thillana, with a raga change?), I can keep track of the thalam a bit more comfortably... if I continue to keep the thalam at that rate, around 28:18, the mainline ( dheem dheem ... ) seems to be picked back up one beat before the samam and the avarthanam following that there is a deficit of one more beat. This results in the song ending two beats before the samam. This is according to my count and I am not the best keeper of thalam so I would blame my time sense first..but I thought I will verifiy with you anyway.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 12 Jun 2006, 16:37

If by beat you mean cycle, then the pancha nadai thalam occurs over 2 cycles. The pallavi would be repeated 4 times if it were sung during this period. And yes, the nadai once again becomes chatushram after the sequence.

The thillana is entirely in Nalinakanthi, so there is no raga change. According to my count (and I will admit it did not work out the first time I tried), the pallavi (dheem dheem and so on) does resume on samam. The song ends on the same. Try lowering the volume on your computer or muting it entirely and reciting a steady chatushram in Adi thalam (with hand motions of course). If you do this correctly, you'll find that the thalam works out... or at least I think it does!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 14 Jun 2006, 13:23

For some reason, the start of charanam sounded different...Anyway, I will sort that out myself by listening again.. I will also try again to get to the samam in my thala keeping.

Actually I meant the indidual beats of the thalam and not the cycle but you offered a useful piece of info that the pancha nadai happens over 2 avarthanams. That is a total of 16 beats, right? You will answer my original question if you can tell me, among the 16 beats, which ones are in which Nadai? You already gave me the timeframe for each nadai which helped a lot. I should be able to figure out at beat counts the nadai changes but my problem goes back to the question whether the nadai is completed over single beat or multiple beats. Because, for example, at half speed khandam, the 5 beats can be spread over two main beats.

So, if you can tell me the following, that will round out the picture.
a) Label those 16 beats on what nadai they are played in.
b) If a nadai is executed in double the speed ( like two 'tha ki ta' 6 mathrais per beat ), please note that for me.
c) Similarly, if a nadai is executed over two beats at half speed ( like 'tha ka tha ki ta' 5 mathrais over two beats ) please no that as well.

Thanks very much Umesh for all the help so far.

khp · Post by **khp** » 14 Jun 2006, 22:25

hello.

Sorry for jumping in a bit late into this conversation. Unfortunately VK, I am not able to entirely understand what you are looking for. In this post, I am simply stating how I resolve this pancha nadai sequence or pretty much any cross rhythm sequence choreography I would like to try out.

In this case, 4 of each of the pancha nadais are being superimposed on a basic Adi tALa cycle.

Main cycle: 1 kaLai Adi in chaturasra jAthi: The sequence is spread out over 4 such cycles.

Total number of mAtras = 4(cycles) * 8(beats in each cycle) * 4(mAtra per beat) = 128.

Total mAtra count for 4 each of the 5 nadais = 9*4 + 7*4 + 5*4 + 4*4 + 3*4 = 112.

mAtras left = 16 to get to samam of main cycle.

You can manipulate these 16 mAtras in any way. The most often done thing is to have a khanda arudi which will have 3 parts of 5 (tai-tai-dit-dit-tai - times 3 - for example) and that takes up 15 with 1 mAtra left. That mAtra can be used at the end of the pancha nadai sequence. So, in effect, you finish up the pancha nadai and start the arudi "oNNu taLLi" so to speak. So, the total mAtra split becomes 112+1+15 = 128. You have landed on samam. if you do not want that gap to occur in between the pancha nadai sequence and the arudi, you can start the entire sequence after skipping the first mAtra. So, the split will now become 1+112+15 = 128. If you do not want the sequence to end in an arudi, you could add very interesting gaps between the nadai sequences themselves where movement is paused for more dramatic effect. For example, if you want equal spaced gaps, you can manipulate the 16 mAtras left into 4 gaps of 4 mAtras each. So, the sequence now becomes

(9*4)+4(pause)+(7*4)+4(pause)+(5*4)+4(pause)+(4*4)+4(pause)+(3*4) = 128.

Its up to one's imagination and sense of aesthetics as to how to work out the cross rhythms. If the thillana itself is structured in a simple yet melodious manner, cross rhythms superimposed on it sound aesthetic without competing with the basic rhythm structure of the tillana. The naLinakAnthi tillana being discussed is very apt since the pallavi structure is fairly simple.

Sorry if I have caused more confusion!! This is just the way I try to understand and/or come up with cross rhythm sequences!!

-Vinod

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 15 Jun 2006, 08:54

Vinod: I see the cross rhythm in your calculation but I do not see a nadai change... If the two cases add up to 128 mathras, then the mathrai duration is the same in both cases. But in the case of different nadai, the mathra duration is different, isn't it?

If I follow your calculation right, you are still playing chathusra nadai but grouping them into 9, 7, 5 and 3 mathrais.

Please set me right if I am not making any sense.

khp · Post by **khp** » 15 Jun 2006, 11:10

VK: Yes, you are right that the nadai of the main Adi tALam does not change. It stays in chaturasram. In the example naLinakAnthi tillAna, the nadai of the basic cycle does not change either. I guess even though the sequence is generally called a pancha nadai sequence, it is simply a cross rhythm sequence involving movement in the pancha jAti. If you mark the tALa in the chaturasra nadai in the same speed as the the pallavi of the tillana right through the cross rhythm sequence, the pallavi picks up again at samam. I guess one could say that the nadai of the basic tALa cycle does not change, but the dancer's movement and the choreography has changed "nadai" with the understanding that when the whole exercise is done, one has to land on the sama of the basic tALa cycle which is in chaturasra nadai.

If indeed the nadai of the basic tALa of the tillana were to change, the number of mAtras per beat of the main cycle - Adi in this case - would also change.

Actually, the way this particular tillana sequence is set up, it could ALSO be seen as a nadai change of the basic tALa cycle. If examined that way, it would seem that nadai was changing for every four beats of the Adi tALa cycle. The 9,7,5,3 could be construed as two Avartanams of 1 kalai Adi with the nadai changing for every four beats. Laghu of first Adi tALa cycle in sankeernam, the drutams of the first Adi tALa cycle in misram, Laghu of second Adi tALa cycle in khandam, drutams of second Adi tALa cycle in tisram. Then we go on to - or return to - chaturasra nadai and all is back to "normal". In general, when there is a nadai change, it is usally not for half the tALa cycle or a part of it - the entire kOrvai would be in the "new" nadai - or atleast a full cycle of the main tALa would be in the "new" nadai - though I don't think there is rule that one cannot make nadai changes for a part of a cycle. Artists in regular CM kutcheris do sing pallavis where the laghu is in a particular nadai and the uttarAngam is in another!.

Coming back to this thillana, the same sequence (9,7,5,3) will also fit into three cycles of the basic chaturasra Adi.

(9*4 + 7*4 + 5*4 + 3*4 = 96 = 8*4*3 ).

I am not sure if that made much sense - guess I am not too sure of my ability to communicate this in words!

-Vinod

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 16 Jun 2006, 02:42

I was looking at the pancha nadai precisely from the second point of view that Vinod described... as a different "pancha nadai thalam." Thanks Vinod for shedding light on both ways. I had read about and also seen artists interpreting nadai change as a change in the nadai of the basic thala structure, so I have typically thought of nadai this way to understand it better and it is how I attempted to describe it above.

Hope my previous posts aren't causing any confusion now!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Jun 2006, 12:16

Thanks Vinod and Umesh..I still have to reconcile the ideas you have written. Let me rephrase it in my words based on my understanding and see if this is right.

1) Nadai change is a change in the 'sub-division' of an individual beat of a thalam and this is what Vinod describes in his second point of view. The pancha nadai in this bharathanatyam thillana refers to such changes in sub-division of beats. ( true?)

2) Vinod's first point of view is cross-rhythm in chathusram without changing the 'sub-division'.

>Coming back to this thillana, the same sequence (9,7,5,3) will also
>fit into three cycles of the basic chaturasra Adi.
>(9*4 + 7*4 + 5*4 + 3*4 = 96 = 8*4*3 ).

Vinod, as we discussed before, such equations only work for cross-rhythms and not for sub-division change, right? So, if this thillana is about sub-division change, how will this equation fit?

One related thing. I was listening to the Thillana from the Swathi Thirunal movie. The last one minute or so is all sollu kattu and I detected some nadai changes. Can you tell if that is indeed true and if it contains a pancha nadai passage? As an added bonus, if you can provide the timeline/beat count where the nadai changes occur, that will be great. I can keep thalam to the layam during the sollu kattu at the end (with some difficulty but can just manage ), so it will be very useful.

You can listen to it here: http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/nUy ... As1NMvHdW/

khp · Post by **khp** » 19 Jun 2006, 22:48

VK,

A quick note before I get back to work!

1) Nadai change is a change in the 'sub-division' of an individual beat of a thalam and this is what Vinod describes in his second point of view. The pancha nadai in this bharathanatyam thillana refers to such changes in sub-division of beats. ( true?)

That the nadai change is a change in the 'sub-division' is indeed true. But the sequence in this PARTICULAR thillana can be interpreted as EITHER a nadai change OR a cross rhythm sequence. You can take your pick.

If the singer had sung the tillana along, then we could have been sure of which one is being followed. If the nadai had changed, the tillana would also have to be sung to that changing nadai which means the "lyrics" would need to be stretched and compressed as the case may be. But, in the case of pretty much all the tillanas I have seen danced, the singer continues in the basic nadai which is almost always chaturasram.

2) Vinod's first point of view is cross-rhythm in chathusram without changing the 'sub-division'.

>Coming back to this thillana, the same sequence (9,7,5,3) will also
>fit into three cycles of the basic chaturasra Adi.
>(9*4 + 7*4 + 5*4 + 3*4 = 96 = 8*4*3 ).

Vinod, as we discussed before, such equations only work for cross-rhythms and not for sub-division change, right? So, if this thillana is about sub-division change, how will this equation fit?

Yes. You are absolutely right. If the sequence is interpreted as one where the nadai indeed changes, this equation does not hold. With this equation, I was merely trying to demonstrate that you could interpret this particular sequence either way - as a nadai change of the basic cycle or a cross rhythm sequence without changing the nadai of the basic cycle.

Personally, I like the cross rhythm approach. Its a lot more "clean" in my opinion - but perhaps bit difficult to have a control over since one has to keep in mind the nadai that one is composing the movement in AND the nadai of the basic tALa since you HAVE to land on the sama of the original cycle. If I were the singer, I would have to continue singing the tillana in chaturasra nadai and maintaining it with my hands even though the percussionists are playing different nadais to go with the dancer!! Can get hairy! I like having that constraint of having to maintain the original nadai and change movement speeds/patterns and land on the sama of the original. Purely personal choice. I like the way the movement(and percussion) intersects with the chaturasra nadai of the tillana as it is sung along.

This particular sequence worked out pretty neat since the basic nadai is chaturasram and the sequence has a tisram after the khandam. I will explain why I say that. If interpreted from a "nadai-change" viewpoint, there is a migration from the original nadai for two FULL cycles of the basic tala (Adi) and then we "returned" to the basic at the beginning of the third cycle. If there were a chaturasram after the khandam, the nadai-change sequence would be.

Laghu of first Adi - sankeernam
Two drutams of first Adi - misram
Laghu of second Adi - khandam
two drutams of second Adi - chaturasram (just happens to be the original nadai)
Laghu of third Adi - tisram
two drutams of third Adi - chaturasram
<continue in chaturasram>

Of course, I am assuming that we want to keep the symmetry of 4 each of the 5 nadais.

If we were to resolve the first chaturasram that occurs in this sequence as part of the pancha nadai sequence and hence not a return to the original, the nadai-change sequence ends in the middle of the third cycle and we return to the original nadai again in the middle of a cycle. In my very personal opinion, that is messy. I would very much prefer that the return to the original nadai happen at the beginning of a cycle. I have absolutely NO reason other than personal conditioning and opinion to back that up.

For some reason I am not able to listen to musicindiaonline at this point from work. I will try the tillana later. I think I have heard it ages ago - this is the swAti tirunAL tillAna in dhanasri right?

-Vinod

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 20 Jun 2006, 00:50

Correct me if I am wrong, Vinod, but I just realized that in that Nalinakanthi Thillana, they have made up for the deficit of 16 mathras to get from 112 to 128 by incoporating 8 chatushrams at the end of the sequence instead of only 4... right?

I believe the pancha nadai sequence in the Dhanashri thillana ends the song. The times might be a little messed up because the musicindiaonline player is not so cooperative. This is what I hear, once some of the fancy sollukattus are simplified:

4:05
Thakita (4x) Tham

4:07
Thakadhimi (4x) Thai

4:10
Thaka Thakita (4x) Tham

4:13
Thakadhimi Thakita (4x) Tha

4:18
Thakadhimi Thaka Thakita ... the nattuvannar (?? don't know what to call him in a filmi song with no thalams!) drops out in the middle of this and the music ends the song.

The finishing "thams" and "thais" are in chatushra nadai, so they're kind of like pauses. I think Vinod's calculation with pauses in his first post applies here if you read it in reverse. I, however, kept thalam while changing the nadai within the cycle... sorry, just easier for me! Vinod might have more to say on this/correct me!

khp · Post by **khp** » 20 Jun 2006, 01:30

Umesh,

The 112 I had mentioned earlier includes the four chaturasrams of the pancha nadai and so one would need only 4 chaturasrams(16) to bridge the gap to get to the next samam.

But the way it is arranged in the naLinakAnthi thillana the last 8 chaturasrams seem to be treated as a separate cycle in the original chaturasra nadai Adi and continuing on to the arudi. I don't recollect where the arudi starts - at samam or before samam - and once again am not able to get to it now.

Their setup seems to be follows

9*4 + 7*4 + 5*4 + 3*4 + 4*4 + 4*4 = 128 (four cycles of Adi tALam)

= (9*4 + 7*4 + 5*4 + 3*4) + (4*4 + 4*4)
= three cycles of chaturasra Adi + one cycle of chaturasra Adi

I still cannot get to music india online..

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 20 Jun 2006, 02:57

Yes, makes sense, thanks. Both the dancers and the orchestra fudge the chatushram so it's a bit messy. They do a kuthadavu like so- "Thai, Thai, That-thai-thaa-haa" sequence 4 times for one thalam and the arudi follows.

Did you try going to musicindiaonline.com and searching for the Thillana? The direct link may sometimes be a problem. Unfortunately, Nada Anuboothi is down... I believe they had the Thillana as well.

khp · Post by **khp** » 20 Jun 2006, 03:15

Umesh,

I just edited my last post since I found it confusing myself!! Yes. You are right, the dancers and the orchestra go a bit haywire when the chaturasram section starts and I think it all started with the singer stopping in the first place and might have stopped marking the basic tALam. There sure seems to be some "adjusting" going on to arrive at that magic samam!

laya2 · Post by **laya2** » 10 Dec 2009, 03:59

Hi Umesh,

I am unable to understand what you have mentioned here:

"Yes, one should be able to determine what nadai the dancer is performing in even without hearing the music " Is it true? How do we identify that?

can you clarify.

thanks.

laya2 · Post by **laya2** » 10 Dec 2009, 05:54

Hi

What is the count of dhi dhit thai in 1st, 2nd and 3rd speed.

Umesh · Post by **Umesh** » 13 Dec 2009, 10:56

Laya2,

What I meant is that adavus are done differently in the 5 nadais (eg. faster or slower movements at strategic places), and that because of this, you don't need to be listening to the music to make out the nadai. Think of this way: if adavu timing did not change according to nadai, why do we care at all about nadai for choreographic purposes?

A simple example:

Mardhitha (or pakka, visharu) adavu (thaa thai thai thaa)-
in chatushram (thakadhimi): thaa thai thai thaa...
in tisram (thakita thakita): thaa thai (pause for one) thai thaa (pause for one)...