How do You appreciate CM?

[cmlover]

This is not a tricky question. CM cannot be appreciated without guidance. One has to know the basic rules. it is nibaddha sangeetham. In that respect it differs from film music where the overriding factors are melody and rhythm (of any kind). Here are a few elementary steps (according to me but in no particular order). Let me also confess that I am primarily a Rasika and who never studied CM (except 'kElvi ganaanam).

1. One should identify the raga which comes only through practice. If you got the words of the sahityam you may use the Ultimate Index of Lakshmanji (my bible) to decipher the raga and composer. I am not ashamed to acknowledge that my raga gnaanam came from a number of (old-time) film music. I have seen some 'Genius(s)' identify raga from the notes and the patterns in the song. I would like to know if you have a cute technique.

2. It is very useful to know the taaLaM and eduppu, if any. My laya gnaanam is very poor and I always resort to the book or try to guess from the mridangist beats (I am often wrong). Pl tell me if you have a technique.

3. Enjoying neravel and swaraprasthaaram requires more training. You get it after listening to a number of performers. It is very helpful to listen to the veterans to get the standard phrases.

This is good enough for a start and now I would like to hear your views.

May I request coolkarni to upload any lecdem or lessons on appreciating CM by a good musician.
Also I would request meena to give us any links on CM appreciation.

Please come along and share your views....

[meena]

let me join u in ur club cml, i too have had no musical background, just enjoy listening to good music/reading articles etc.

Why hasn't anyone come out with 'Carnatic Music for Dummies' yet?

Quite a few books/cd rom out there on this subject.

to start off:

http://www.carnatica.net/sangeet/sang-main.htm
http://sify.com/carnaticmusic/fullstory ... 21&vsv=597

i have enjoyed reading this article cml:
http://www.sruti.com/May03/bbook.htm

[srinidhi]

My two paise

One should also try and listen to as many different compasitions in the same ragam. For e.g- a 'o jagadamba' is very different from 'marive re gati' and 'himachala tanya brochutaku' though all three are in ananda bhairavi and all three are by Shyama Shastri' This gives a better understanding of the ragam.

Listening to different artists singing the same song also offers
interesting perspective. A GNB rendition of "rama katha sudha" is sooooo different from TM Krishna singing the same song.

[cmlover]

Thanks meena for those excellent links. Could you also provide the link to the
'Gentleman's introduction to CM'...
Srinidhi
You have touched on a very important point. CM is never the same even though the same song or raga is rendered even by the same musician. This aspect is very confusing to a novice who expects things to be a carbon copy.

I would like to hear personal experiences as to how folks got exposed and get to appreciate CM. The personal anecdotes are more interesting and educational.

Pl don't be shy...

[rshankar]

Ever since I can remember, CM has been a part of my life. For the first 17 years, it was just part of the background 'noise' in my parents' house..and then I went away to medical college and was intensely homesick, and I accidentally 're-discovered' CM through the local AIR, and I have have been 'hooked' ever since! I have absolutely no formal training, although I must have listened with a few brain cells to the classes my sisters' took, because I can recall some gIthams and swarajathIs even today. While I started to listen to CM for its comforting familiarity, I continued listening because, equipped with rudimentary language skills in Tamizh, Kannada, Telugu (thanks to a peripatetic dad) as well as a decent grounding in Sanskrit and Hindi (thanks to a lifetime of KV education) I could understand most of the songs, and they really touched and moved first my mind, then my heart and now I hope my spirit! So in time music became a melodious way of spreading the composer's heartfelt pleas and genius. As I listen to any CM song, I actually 'see' the sentiments...and the music is a divine vehicle for these thoughts...I appreciate the poetry of lines like OVKs 'chandra sUrya nayanA, nAgendra shayana ramaNA' or the beauty of Purandara Dasars' 'sakala vidhyABimAnI, ajana pattadha rANI', or the inherent vAthsalyam found in Annamacharya's 'rArA chinnaNA, rArOri chinnavAda' or the utter simplicity of Tulsidas's surrender when he says 'mErO man hAr liyO jAnakI ramaNvA' or just the absolute visual poetry of OVK's (again) 'pullAgilum nedu nAL nillAdhu, AdhalinAl, oru shiru kallAi piravi thara vendum'. When I first heard the last song, I thought OVK was asking to be reborn as a pebble: but on listening further, I realized that the 'shiru kal' had to be a boulder, because OVK goes on to tell krishnA: 'un thiru mEni yen mElE amarndhidum oru kAlE, thirumagaL ena malaradi peyarndhu, unai thodarndha rADHaikkum idam tharuvEnE'! Reminds me of how my concept of kANi nilam was also very different from what it actually was: when BArathi asks parAshakthI for 'oru kANi nilam', he is actually asking for 24 'grounds'!
That being said, over the past several years, I have started to appreciate the beauty of the music itself: and IMO, to truly appreciate a rAgam, one should listen to it played on an instrument. Sans the distraction of voice/words, it will only be the music that one hears.
I recently had a discussion with a friend who is an accomplished HM vocalist, and he said that our current krithi-based CM concerts are just like singing 'bandhish' in HM, and leave no scope for originality and imagination. I do not agree, because each individual who sings a song leaves their imprint on the rendition, be it in the eduppu, or in the way they split or pronounce the words and of course all artistes differ in their ability to move the listener's mind/heart/spirit..all of which is aslo based on their manODHarmam, over and above the elaboration of alApanais and nereval and kalpanAswarams...
I am totally jealous of those with the divine gift and talent to identify the swarams in any melody and then identify the rAgam, which I think is the 'gold standard' for identifying rAgams! I usually use songs whose rAgam I am aware of to identify others in the same rAgam (yArO ivar yArO? and yE nAti nOmu phalamO?, mahAlakshmI jaganmAthA and sarojadhalanEthrI and srI chandramoulIshwarArDHanArIshwara). IMO songs from old Tamizh films are great to identify rAgams! I use 'andhi mayangudhadI' to identify some songs in kalyANI, 'pArthEn sirithEn' for sahAnA, and 'yen uyir thOzhi, kEL oru seidhI' for hamIrkalyANI to quote just a few! I feel that some rAgams like mOhanam, sArangA, rIthigowlai, BairavI etc are easier to identify than others.
Ravi Shankar

[poongavur]

Try the following link. It seems to provide a decent intro and a lot of details. All text and no audio.

http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/start.html

PS: The intro is kind of funny but it gets serious very quickly after that.

[poongavur]

There is also a book by S. Parthasarathy published around Dec. 2004 by Amritha Parthasarathy. It comes with a CD containing many audio samples along with explanations for CM appreciation. I found the CD very useful. Amritha Parthasarathy's email address : [email protected]

PS: The book is the 9th chapter of Vol. 2 by Mr. Parthasarathy and just presents the 1st line of over 1000 pallavis (by the Trinity & others) in 108 Divya Ragams.

[vasya10]

Well, in my early years I never liked CM, though my dad plays decent ganjira... Later when i studied in a lonely faraway foreign country, I started to listen to CM mainly to feel "homely" and that too only instrumentals - L Subramaniam and Shankar, never knew when an anupallavi starts or what a tala is.

Some 5 years ago, one day I heard MDR's slokam "Ratnakarasadanam..." the rendering and the meaning moved me.. and ever since have been hooked to MDR. With great services by Sri Raju im now hearing more than what I could have ever imagined when i started listening and Sri Coolkarni's upload of lecdems are now helping me understand the details behind the music... Really love the lecdems, would love to listen more... And of course nice articles on the net have helped to understand this CM...

Thanks to all, its been a very addictive experience...

[pramodh]

Thanks for the exellent links. Its wonderful to have a "link expert" in this forum. Its amazing what the net can provide.

[rshankar]

HMV has brought out a 2 cassette pack on "appreciating CM". The narration is by Ramakrishnan (the English news reader from Madras DD) and it is decent.

[pramodh]

Do you get that here mate, in the UK?

[rshankar]

I am sure they are available in the UK. I bought these from Giri Traders in India. Check with online stores. You can also look up Giri Trading companies website online and check their catalog. I will look through my horde of cassette tapes in my basement and give you the exact title.
Ravi

[coolkarni]

Like all the good things in my life, I owe my initiation into listening and appreciating Music to my Late Father.

After 30 years of dedicated listening I have come to the conclusion that unless one is a born genius, the art of appreciating CM is something that one can acquire only over a full life span. And if one believes in rebirth-which I do-It is something that one carries from one janma to another. There is no other way to explain the complexity of this music.

As a young boy, my dad used to lead me to performances exclaiming-â??Son we humans are all like fallen angels --with a faint recollection of heaven. These are the real angels who bring down Heaven to this earth!"

In my grown up years, when I was able to decide for myself, I still find his assessment very correct.

In my early years of appreciation, we did not have visual images of most artists, so the music wove its own pictures in our minds. To my little mind CM,then, fell under two categories.
a) One where I pictured the singer, sitting in front of a deity and singing only to himself.
Agony ecstasy, introspection, exclamation,cajoling, whatever the moodâ?¦
It was as though they were dealing with God on a one to one basis.
(There is this house in Mylapore where an artist sings for an hour in front of the Pooja room for an hour starting at 5.30 AM. This runs for 20 days every year-different artists everyday-anyone can attend. I attended OSTs rendering this January. No accompaniments-just the drone-no looking around for eager listeners and their moods. The eyes that were closed at 5.30 am with the opening lines of nada thanumanisam, opened only at 6.40 after -what I thought-were very personal statements-there was so much going on inside the artist.a sincerity of intent that cannot be faked. Sitting just 2 feet away from him, I could feel the power of his music. That is CM in all its divine glory for me. Everything else comes secondary.)

The ultimate -to my lay mind -in this category were the likes of MS, Chembai and DKJ.I vividly remember the first impressions of MS's Sarojadalnetri LP and the impact it had on me. Every time it appeared on radio, I would wait for that magic moment in the neraval, when all the accompanists would slowly recede to the background, as though some holy spirit was passing by, and she would glide into sama gana vinodini---- magical moments.....

b) Two, where I pictured a showman- a skilful artist -one who mastered all that he surveyed. An emperor who could command the undivided attention of thousands of people, in the full confidence of his abilities.

Here was GNB, a TNS and Alathoor ...at each stage of their renderings; the seekers spirit was so overwhelming. So many dimensions to this enterprise. While listening to them I had to force upon myself the context of the krithi and its meanings. (Donâ??t get me wrong- may be I am wired up wrongly No matter what TNS sings while singing yare Rangana yare Krishnana, the power of the technique and grammar is all over the place. And when TKR sings the same song.......OR when semmangudi sings maru balga)

These are attempts to classify some feelings, only for the purpose of making a point. I now know that most artists are an exciting combination of these two elements-to various individual degrees.....

As I progress through this Wonderland called CM, each day brings new colors with it-

Thanks
To a Prism of knowledge, that gets refined in its shape and size with each inputâ?¦.

And to all those Gandharvas who make it possible to feel that ultimate Experience.

Rshankar
As I was reading bout the myth of Sivas dance, in your thillana thread, I could not help putting up this track .Emanis lightening strokes reverberates through the skies.Sivramans Mridangam shakes me up here like nothing else.And Msgâ??s responses..what can one say.
can we ever repay the debt we owe themâ?¦

This is from a Concert which comes like a tonne of bricks on you
-I have made so many extra copies for fear of losing it !

Your Download-Link: http://rapidshare.de/files/2716766/TRACK.mp3.html
Download-Link: http://rapidshare.de/files/2716900/TRACK_2.mp3.html

and for all of you who complain of indigestion , let me remind you.
indigestion is due to the downloads, not the uploads

[cmlover]

Bravo coolkarni

With that magic wand you transported us to mylapore to listen-in when the musician was in private communion with the deity. In fact each inspired performance is communication between the souls and music is a cosmic vibration that transports the ecstasy between the souls. In short the message is, you cannot enjoy CM unless you are willing to lose your self!

Thanks for the reminiscence!

[pramodh]

Thaks Ravi

[vasu]

Though I am not a regular participant of this forum, my wife is, and she directed me to this thread. My own love affair with carnatic music began in rather unusual circumstances.

Two years ago I was diagnosed with testicular cancer and then began long periods of treatment, chemotherapy and what not, along with lengthy bouts of weakness, deppression,etc. The support of my family notwithstanding, I yearned for something more, something which would bring me solace. It was then that I plunged headlong into carnatic music. My wife would bring cassettes, which I would play on my bedside recorder. Altough my knowledge of musical theory was pretty primitive (I dont like getting into the nuances of bhairavi-mukari-manji), somehow I began soaking in the melody, the words, the voices. The relief and the hope it brought me is indescribable. It was as though I was reaching out to the immortality of music in an attempt to mask my own mortality. I began listening as though there was no tommorrow (which seemeed a distinct possibilty then).

When the going got tough, I would seek refuge in 'Devi brova- Chintamani' (OST) , 'Brova vamma- MAnji' (DKP), O Jagadamba -Ananda Bhairavi (TMKrishna) . When I was upbeat, it would be 'Sri Subramanyaya Namaste', (Sanjay) O Ranga sayee (MSS) Swara Raga Sudha, etc . I listened to just about everyone- Sanjay, Sowmya, Unnikrishnan, TM Krishna. Some how, I am more attracted to the current generation (probably because I am a recent convert) and also because they are about my own age and are able to produce such divine music. To my mind, dedicating oneself to such a great art form seemed far superior than earning degree after degree and finally landing as an obscure s/w pro.

Since then there has been no looking back. Both my wife and I will be eternally grateful to Sri Kulkarni and others for bringing the voices of the great masters of the past alive.

[coolkarni]

vasu
That was a tremendous post .Take it from me.

When i put up the KVN neraval for Punniyam Oru Koti, I had half a mind to add a footnote that this was the last track recorded by my Late Father, who passed away due to Lung cancer.(He lived for exactly 100 days after diagnosis) and evertytime I hear that clip, I cannot but help feel that there is some divine power behind all these revelations.I finally decided not to mention that because he would have scolded me for being too sentimental -he was that type ,you see.
But nevertheless that magic aura of his still remains with me.
I have rarely revealed to anyone ,how i ended up with such a huge collection.after all i am not a musician , not even a student and ordinary rasikas dont go to such lengths.
The final 100 days of his life were very very difficult from a physical point of view.Not able to sit not able to sleep, burning sensations inside... distraught as I was , as any son would be, all my music friends came to my rescue.chaps who would not part with a single tape for a day, came home in cars loaded with tapes -- all vintage concerts and piled them in front of my father.My father was so overjoyed , that he never looked back.for almost 20 hours a day he kept dancing like a child- dubbing the tapes in one recorder, listening to them in another , Indexing them (he was an Industrial Engineer by profession , so no halfway measures with him) and neatly storing .for all but two of the 100 days.

I did not have the nerve to reopen these boxes for several months after he drifted away.and then I slowly started finding the best ways of making use of them.Then internet came along, then Mp3 , and finally a person called raju asokan.
and now these forums.
I wonder if it is right to post feelings in a thread which looks at how one appreciates music.
But i decided to go ahead , because of the context.

Context .that is the key to my enjoying this music.

Some years later , one of my close friends-who was training under Semmangudi visited my home during navarathri.Soon there was a crowd around him begging him for a few renderings on Devi.
as he settled in front of all the dieties on display, he realised that there was no sruthi box around.and he refused to sing.there was a lopt of cajoling(sing whatever you can, however you can...) but he would not budge.it was getting increasingly emabarassing for me and then when it looked like becoming a big flop show, this friend had an idea.he asked all of us to keep quiet and then noticed an old Cinni fan makiing a very pleasant hum.he asked the speed to be increased and boy !!we had one lovely sruti box there.and after a few hums he took off on a magnificent rave himagiri.
weeks later , we were sitting in the last row of a lec dem (where Prof SRj was taking the first 4 speakers who preceded him to pieces) and this same friend was singing merrily by my side.. hopping from Rd Burman to Ilayaraja to TVG and to Kumar gandharv.and I asked him why he did not sing without the sruthi box that day , if he could now do all this .
And his reply was
"If I had asked a question-in a moment of doubt-to my Guru- Semmangudi would have told me "Just look at the context and decide"
At your home, the Context -the atmosphere, the Goddess all demanded that I behave that way.Today since i am teaching you something, this is Ok.

Now you know why I go headlong into sharing relationships.

My sincere pranams to your wife - i dont claim to know even 5 % of what she might have experienced , but nevertheless I have to salute these people around you.

I Sincerely pray to God that you will recover fully and pass the good cheer around.
I am also sure all our other friends in this very very Cosy forum join me in doing so.
Best of Luck

PS.If we have not given much exposure to current artists, it is only because we are not sure where we stand on the issue of copyrights.Nothing more Nothing Less.
please let us know if we can be of more use to you.

[chithra]

Vasu, Kulkarni:

I read the very moving accounts from both of you. Music does transform us, within and without. And, as the Bard said,

In sweet music is such art,
Killing care and grief of heart
Fall asleep.......

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. IMHO, even that forms a part of appreciating CM, and is fully IN CONTEXT.

Chithra

[cmlover]

coolkarni

Is it true? I don't doubt it. It was my dad (no relation of yours :cheesy: ),a CM bhakta who had a similar experience (dying of cancer) showed how one could conquer life's miseries through CM. He expired listening ecstatically to SSI's navasiddhi on a broken-down gramophone exclaiming 'shambO' in unison with him! I put that 78RPM in the funeral pyre with him to the consternation of the attending vaidhikas. As I took to the healing profession I knew the intrinsic power of Music in treating intractable conditions. My calling left me no time to learn CM scientifcally but my heart was always in it (perhaps in my gene)! That is why I am encouraging folks to share their experiences with CM so that it will be a roadmap for other similarly oppressed souls. THANK YOU!

I was laughing while reading about your friend singing to the drone of the fan as I recollected the story of MDR singing once to the electical hum (of 50Hz)

[rshankar]

Gosh! all of that is soul stirring! I am not surprised that CM arouses such passions!
It was rahIm who said: 'maDHur vachan hai aushaDHI.....
sravaN dwAr hai sancharI, phailE sakal sarIr' How much more maDHur can you get than CM? So, it is no wonder that this music is an 'aushaDHI'. For me, it can even be called a panacea!
Sitting in the Larry Einhorn's backyard (he pioneered the treatment for testicular cancer and Lance Armstrong is one of his more notorious success stories), I can relate to all of your stories.
There is a divinity in CM that I have not found elsewhere: I am sure that I am not alone when phrases like:
kAma dhahana mOhinI,
panchabANAri prANa priya saKI
odyANa pITa sTHithE
(to name just a few) uttered in melodious and mellifluous beseechment just make your day, or give you goosebumps! (I can't translate 'paravasham' any better)
Maybe cmlji can come up with another of his neat verses on the lines of 'aushadham jAnhavI thOyam'.....to extol the medicinal properties of CM!
Ravi Shankar

[cmlover]

Ok! Take this in jest or seriously!
CM if you read it should sound as 'seeM' (like OM).
Many of you may knw that OM is the samShThi praNavaM (madeup of akaara, ukaara makaaram symbolizing viShNu,brahma and shiva) and I will not go into the philosophical issues here.
In a similar vein CM is sakaara ikaara makaara samaShThi sangeetha praNavaM. My interpretation is;
sa = saha (together with)
i = maha shakti
ma = shiva
Or it is shiva accompanied by shakti (saaMbaa in other words) or in his complete blessing form! Is there any doubt if you meditate on CM you will not attain saayujyam with naadabrahmam!

[gb_rajasekar]

Dear Rasikas,
I am moved to see the emotional postings of our friends.. what is life if but not to share both your good feelings and bad moments one to lighten the heaviness of the heart and the other to spread the good cheer.. I decided to share my personal feelings from the perspective of a progeny..

My father died when i was 11 and a half years old. He was home only 10 days in a month max,, our house was two worlds
When he was home, silent and subdued as he hated noise which disturbed his prayers,, he prayed early morning and afternoons he used to sleep and other times he read religious books for which he needed concentration,, he had a calling bell and when the decibels reached a particular level , it would ring non stop till the level subsided,, we were 17 people in the house and we all used to live down excepting my father and my uncle who were usually on the first floor.

the calling bell was also used very intelligently by him.. one ring at a particular time meant coffee, two rings meant my sister who acted as his secretary should go up to meet him,, three meant my brother should meet him etc,, and to add to this, visitors the whole day,, His close friend Babu Sir or Sri Venkatanarasimhan the Lawyer used to walk from his home in Palathope to beach and on the way back used to use the back entrance without disturbing any of us at 6AM , have his chat, coffee and leave,, evenings(practically everyday) his two close friends Sri Parthasarathy Iyengar and (I do not recollect his name) another friend would come,, interspaced by other musicians,

the only music we heard when he was in town was when he taught some keerthanais to his disciples , especially one he introduced. Later years, he would definitely need support of his disciples as he had difficulty in singing due to his health.

he would also teach some of his compositions to his disiciples like Someswara Babu, Radha Jayalakshmi etc,, also some walk in rasikas who would request this keerthanai or the other..

I vividly recall his setting up Balagopala in Bhairavi in the early sixties,, he also set up a song in Abheri - Kanda Vandarul - which i learnt by rote just sitting on the stairs,, he would not like us to come up when he was teaching as he did not like his students getting disturbed.. Balagopala was in its second coming,,
He would not encourage us to come to his concerts, and what i meant to drive home was the fact that we were never exposed to carnatic music much,,

When he was not in town it was a different ball game,, i have listened (being youngest- no control on the radio) more to cliff richard and Engle Bert, Elvis etc(my brother was physically handicapped and so had priority over the radio) or mohd rafi and lata or some few MLV renderings on the radio( My eldest sister who had the control on the radio) those days it was more of mlv movie songs,,

I have listened to more music in snippets from Sri Chembai teaching TVG, VV Ravi etc who was our neighbour ,, would not stay and listen as i had more important business like playing cricket with friends or going to the beach... (what a loss)

After my father died, my brother bought a tape recorder and started collecting tapes,, I was roped in to do the recordings for him,, either from the radio when he was not at home or do some copying,, no high speed dubbing then,,, only spool to spool... it was then i heard a real full concert of my father and other musicians,, most of you are aware that my brother ended up with over 1000 spools of all musicians and to my knowledge he had the biggest collection of MLV ,, around 75 concerts..

I also forcibly learnt sarali varisai from one Mr Chinnaswami who was our family nadaswaram vidwan, who played for my father's seemandam and also for my last sisters wedding and my brother's sons poonal 1932-1981..

I learnt appreciating music like you, connecting a known tune concept and going wrong several times too,, then in the late seventies, i came to mumbai and my sister used to attend Shanukanada concerts and as she had an extra ticket, i started attending monthly concerts,, it is then that i started to identify ragas (only gana ragas and a few popular ones only)

Lakshman's cd is a great help now, whenever i need to tabulate some of the recordings,,

I can still enjoy a concert without knowing a single raga,,, i try for hours to find the raga later,,, i am 52 now and still a baby when compared to peole like Ravishankar, Ramakrishnan, Coolkarni etc,,

Laya -- less said the better... i can find the cycle of beats only when i see the artist playing it,,,and only identify, ada thala, adi thala etc..(few only)

IMHO
In conclusion,, i feel that only real way (for many of us who never learnt it at a young age) is this method,,

the other way is to be a born genius like some of the old and the present generation who can learn to appreciate it from tapes itself.. my father has mentioned that from very early age, when he heard a phrase, he could visualise the swaras perfectly... i think this is gift of Saraswati to a few..

pls feel free to criticise if i am wrong, and of course as it is from the heart,, pardon poor grammar, punctuation etc etc

Rajasekar

[coolkarni]

dear Rajasekhar


with the spool collectors , i have heard a 7 minute clip of your father teaching Ma Ramanan to MLV .
i never had the nerve to ask them for it.
( i did not have the nerve to visit you even inspite of many of rajus promptings.but with this post , i get a feeling that you dont mind people like me being in your Company)
So I am gertting bold enough to ask you if you do have this recording.it would be great for all of us here.
Your vivid description of the scenes at your home ,has made me thirsty for this clip..
pardon me my impertinence.

[divakar]

sri rajasekhar, thanks for a vivid description of Sri GNB at home,
which prompts me to write my entry into this ocean.

no music b/g, like some of you. just listening to what pleases, used to listen often to numbers which were incidentally classical based.

it was in '97-'98, in a foreign land, my friend's handful collection of CM cassettes were our only connection to india/ music.
i remember it was while listening to Sri GNB's cassette that containing just two songs (Siva kAmEshwarin - kalyANi, and tAmasam En swAmi - tODi) that something struck to me. I felt this is it.
i kept repeatedly listening to it when i got chance and my friend commented 'are you going to buy CM cassettes when you go back to India' for which i said 'i dont think so'

well, back home i first bought that cassette and one of MMI. Didnt know who they were except just the names. got hooked to player and listened to these several times. Then went on a purchasing spree and finished off all that was available of GNB and MMI. slowly, it was Chembai, ARI, Alathur, MVI, SSI, MDR. only a couple of MDR cassettes were available, so not much exposure to him then. but now, thanks to Sri Raju, he occupies the max. space in my HD and me.

all this was going on, without an iota of knowledge or even web browsing. i didnt feel the need to know when i was really losing myself on listening to these stalwarts. slowly i started to discuss to know more about rAgams. then one fine day an unknown person had to become a friend through a common friend to bring in THE change. lot of discussion, exchange of concerts, etc. ensued.
most of my understanding of rAgams or identifying this or that was either by discussion or self-taught.

then, for the past 3 months: another phase. everyone here knows how..

[cmlover]

GBR
Your recollections are the only means for us to get to know the human side of your father. When we hear him sing we get to know his soul a medium through which nadabrahmam is communicating with us. As you share more and more about him he becomes a member of our family too! Then as we hear more and more of his songs he gets integrated with our psyche which we pass on to our children and grand children and he gets immortalized. GNB belongs to CM and by giving his memories and memorabilia you are enriching CM itself for which all CM lovers will be grateful to you over the ages. By joining our Rasika group you may discover a side of your father (the 2/3 of the month that you missed him) which we have captured in our souls and we want to share them with you.

WELCOME

[abadri]

Welcome, Shri Rajasekhar.

Here's the audio track that Shri Kulkarni referred to (GNB teaching Maa Ramanan) [rapidshare link deleted]

As ever, the credit for bringing this to the rest of us ordinary folks, goes to the one and
only Shri Raju Asokan.

Thanks
-Badri

[cmlover]

In fact raju has already distributed it to the rest of the world with a short commentary. We now know a litle bit more of GNB as a teacher. Perhaps with your help GBR we may know him better!

[inconsequential]

sri vasu, sri coolkarni, cml sir, sri gb rajasekar - pls accept my humble greetings. listening to these experiences i think is particularly important for poeple like us.

to me, it seems - just like younger artists have to listen to a lot of the veterans - the younger rasikas have a similar need - to listen to the recollections (like sri rajasekar has pointed out, they need not be always 'apprently' good) elder rasikas. we, as young ones (me, and my likes) also have to know how to use our 'CM-listening-experience' to cope with rest of the events in our lives.

regards

[kannan]

What a divine Hindolam!

I am getting increasingly convinced that the best way to listen to vidwans of yore is to listen to them outside of concerts

Almost without exception, the best that I have heard turns out to be when there are not that many people in the audience or when they are just teaching without accompaniments. I used to feel the same way about my own guru too. Another example: I found that Sri KVN sounds even more divine and serene in his lec-dems.. The shankarAbharaNam snippet in the rasikapriya lec-dem is probably the best exposition of the rAga that I have heard. Does anybody else feel the same way on this issue or am I just fooling myself ?

What a tremendous loss it is that we don't have recordings of these people when they were singing in private.

[coolkarni]

kannan
i presume your Guru is KVN
I wonder if you have heard Semmangudi and KVN singing Sankarabharana for about 30 minutes in a private setting.
the evening when DKP-MS sang Mamava Pattabhirama together
and when musri also sang with semmangudi .
if negative, i will post it here tomorrow.

[kannan]

No, my guru is not Sri KVN. Sorry for the confusion . Would have mentioned his name if anybody would have recognized his name. Unfortunately, it is not so..I have heard the KVN/SSI recording.

Btw, I must say that I find clips with comments by members far more enjoyable than concerts. Many things often pass under the radar when one listens passively to a concert. Clips which make a certain point are so much more enjoyable. My interest in listening to music has returned due to all of you. Thanks to all of you for this..

[kannan]

I have not heard the DKP-MS though. It would be great if you could post it ..Both of them singing mAmava paTTaabhiraama would be a dream come true!

[rsrini]

The discussion in this thread reminds me of an Indian proverb about chess. To paraphrase "CM is a sea in which a gnat may drink and an elephant may bathe".
I have had no formal (or informal) training in CM, but have consoled myself with the fact this has not dimmed my appreciation of CM. It is heartening to see that I have some company here! A friend of mine, an accomplished vocalist once told me "You don't have to understand the technicalities to enjoy the music. If the piece makes your skin tingle, its great music, regardless of what the technique is" I found this wonderful advice. MDR, for instance, often has this effect. I suppose that this also happens to everyone, with different musicians.

[gb_rajasekar]

Dear Rasikas,
you have overwhelmed me by your response.. The Maa Ramanan you heard is not the one being taught to MLV..

it is a group of songs recorded at my house in Trivandrum in early 1965.. This was just sometime before his last concert on 12.3.65 in Delhi..
some music lovers came to our house and requested him to sing a few pieces. he obliged though he was unwell and though we did not know then on the last stage of his life.. the whole thing starts with a kambodhi raga, Thamademen in Todi, Ragamalika Sloka and Maa Ramanan..
this was recorded on a spool tape with a mike and the room closed to make it sound proof..

it was just his voice and the tambura,, V.Ramachandran was at home with us as a live in disicple,, He had a disciple like that all the time during his life. they would come home early morning at 6.30 or seven and leave at 9.00pm or so,, they had breakfast, lunch dinner with us and used to travel to all cities he went to with him at his expense.

To my knowledge, my father has not taken any money for the music he taught to his disciples..

he is considered a great composer by many but not by himself,, he used to call which ever disciple he had at the time, dictate the notation and the lyric and he forgot about it,, inevitably someone would hear about it and ask him to tech to them and he would oblige.. i have heard from my uncle, that on many occasions he has sung them to Dr S.Ramanathan after composing them ,, he never sang them in public. It took a lot of effort from TR Balu to make him publish his first book Gana Bhaskara Mani Malai.. The publisher's name was mine. Raja Publications,, as i was the youngest child and his pet..

Once when he was in Kumbakonam or Tanjore, i am told, Maha Periyaval was staying in the adjacent lodge. He called for my father, and he went to meet him,, it was afternoon time and periyaval told him " I know that you do not sing your compositions, but i want to hear them,, pls sing,,
Immediately he sang a few pieces.. Periyval I believe told him"
I know that you do not know sanskrit well,, but dont tell the world ..they will think you are lying.. and blessed him,,
telling him the compostions had come out well
once when TVR visited him a few years after his death, he asked him to sing the Paramukamelanamma in Kanada, which TVR could not sing as he did not know the composition,, Periyval recalled the words ,, Marala Jayitha Manda Gamani in the song. I do not know sankrit and cannot explain what he meant..

Eventually during a later visit, TVR did sing the song for the Periyaval..

My brother attended this year's GNB Day in chennai where TN Krishnan played a concert.. I am told he recalled how he had some problems with the raga Manji and how he stayed almost the day with us and my father explained the intricate differences between Bhairavi and Manji and how the two should be separted and then made TNK play both till he understood the differences.. He also told that he heard my father sing Paramuka at home after composing it and how he learnt it and then played the composition..

He was ever ready to teach what he knew to anyone who asked and was ready at any time to give clarifications on any aspect of his music to anyone who asked him..

MLV recalls an incident,, she was doing a srutibeda and made a mistake during an AIR concert. He immediately called her and pointed out what mistake she did and she realised her mistake..
This is in a lecdem of my father's compositions and available on tape.

He was a very humble man and during the later years regretted that he was making money selling the knowledge given by Saraswati , but it was too late to change profession..

He never scolded us when we did not do well in studies etc, but got angry if we spoke rudely to elders even if they were our servants,, the only time i got a slap from him was when i shouted at our cook who was an elderly woman at the age of 7 or so..

Rgds
Rajasekar

[divakar]

dear sri rajasekhar,

thanks for your recollections. It is really nice that you are sharing freely your reminiscences and we are all lucky to have you as one of the members of this forum.

lec-dem's by the masters are a totally different experience when compared to concerts. each musician is expert in a certain aspect of music and we get to enjoy these different aspects at one place.

[cmlover]

maraaLa jayita manda gamanI

maraaLa means a swan. Hence this means 'a woman who has a slow gait that conquers (the beautiful gait)) of the swan'

Lakshman
will be much obliged if you can kindly identify the kriti and post it for us in full.

GBR

Will it be possible to make available the consolidated Lec dems of GNB. I am sure Kulkarni would collect them on our behalf and upload them in due course (sorry Kji to volunteer you ). If there are any costs involved we may be able to defray them collectively. Thanks

[chithra]

Dear Sri Rajasekhar:

Thank you so very much for sharing your memories of your illustrious father with us. Please write and tell us more - I am sure we all are avid to know other dimensions of this trailblazer of a musician, Shri GNB.

Every time I hear GNB I am astounded by what he imparts to the ragam, be it alapanai, swaram, niraival....People who had little exposure to CM became converts after hearing the brilliance of his swaraprastharam. IMHO, I have heard no other Ma Ramanan to equal his....

I was lucky to learn music from one of his sishyas, someone who did Gurukulavasam with him (I think). Unfortunately, at that time, my mind was more on Ponniyin Selvan, Enid Blighton etc., and I paid scant atention to his stories of GNB. So, I hope I get another chance now to know GNB through you.

Chithra

[chithra]

I just recalled something a music teacher told me. This person had discovered a krithi composed by GNB in Hindolam - but he had only the saahithyam, no notation. So, he was planning on setting the dhathu (music) for it. I know of only one Hindolam krithi by GNB - Sama Gana Lole, in Roopakam. Are there others? Likewise, are there more compositions by GNB apart from those in the two books, Gana Bhaskara Manimalai and Compositions of GNB?

Lastly, if anybody has T. R. Balasubramaniam's music - he passed away young, and I have never heard his renditions - would they please share it here? Thank you.

Chithra

[coolkarni]

has T. R. Balasubramaniam's music -

WILL BE DONE

[vira]

Everyone,

I found this site which has a set of 21 lessons on CM. Also has some articles/reviews:

http://www.geocities.com/aeolusmusic

I found this to be quite informative.

[inconsequential]

thanks for the link vira.
really nice articles. good read

regards

[knrh05]

coolkarniji,
I hope you will post the SSI-KVN Sankarabharanam or the DKP-MSS Manirangu pieces. I am sure a lot of forum members (including myself) haven't heard them.... I have heard about a concert that SSI leads with Alathur bros, Musiri, KVN joining in but have never had the opportunity to listen to it. Must have been a divine experience for the rasikas in that setting.


KN

[chithra]

Sri Kulkarni, I second KN's request - please / the duets by the stalwarts. Many thanks,

Chithra

[kannan]

Sri Kulkarni, I third the request I too would like to hear the whole concert again.

Also, these postings by Ashvin make me wish I had recorded my first guru while he was alive. Alas, gurus like him and Sri SRJ are all too rare while sishyas like me, all too common It is wonderful for all of us that dedicated students like dhavalangi and Ashvin are still around to make up

[chithra]

Vira, Incon:

I tried the site but only th latest update "Saints and Singers" works. The other links, Lessons and Articles, seem to be dead. I use Mozilla - do all links with IE, nestcape etc?

Chithra

[inconsequential]

chitra - i clicked on a random link in the lessons section. remember seeing it worked fine. as for the articles, it was jsut fine. infact, sat thro' the entire afternoon reading one after another i use IE

am unable to guess why you cant access though

regards

[meena]

chitra

i have firefox browser but u could add extension -'view this page in IE'.
I have not prob. aceesing any lessons links using both browsers.

U are asking help in the wrong forum- either google or get help mozilla firefox forum.

[cmlover]

Pl Post your Questions and seek prompt answers in the Q&A section. And do not messup the trend of the other threads

[vira]

chitra:

I use IE and I did not have any problem accessing it. Sorry cannot be of more help. Perhaps one of the tech experts here might be able to help.

incon:

I have let two evenings slip by the same way.

[chithra]

Thanks, Vira and Incon, for letting me know that the links work with IE

I am disappointed at some of the response from senior (been a longer time in this forum - not physical age) forum members: I did not ask for help re: using Firefox / mozilla / IE - merely asked which browser Vira / Incon used. After all, troubleshooting must begin somewhere. Further, this request is no different than saying, "help, am unable to access your X Drive links". Admittedly, I did not write a complete sentence, so my meaning got garbled, but I was not looking for Browser 101.

chithra