Bombay Jayashri - Music Academy - 26 Dec 2008

hariharans · Post by **hariharans** » 26 Dec 2008, 20:07

Music Academy
26 Dec 2008 : 16:15hrs

Smt Bombay Jayashri - Vocal
Sri H N Bhaskar - Violin
Sri J Vaidhyanathan - Mridangam
Dr S Karthick - Ghatam

01 Sarasiruhasana - Naatai - Adi - S
02 Nee Bhajana - Nayaki - Adi
03 Sri Balasubramanya - Bilahari - Misra chapu - R and N at Kanakavalli deva S at Sri Bala
04 Ganamurthe - Ganamurti - Adi
05 Rama ni samana - Karaharapriya - Rupakam - R and N S at paluku paluku
06 Rtp Ranjini - khanda triputa(2)
Thanam in ranjini , begada , hindolam.
" senthil nagar mevum kandha vadivelane shanmukhane guhane "
swaram in ranjini , begada , hindolam , hamsanadam , kalavati , charukesi , kaphi.
07 Viruttham Behag followed by
08 Siva balane - behag - misra chApu
09 Ashthapati rAse hari - karnaranjini - Adi
10 Thillana - VAsanthi - misra chApu
11 Mangalam

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 26 Dec 2008, 20:28

hariharans-thanks once gain; Looks like stills from mArgazhi rAgam.

pakkavadyam · Post by **pakkavadyam** » 26 Dec 2008, 22:10

why wasnt there a thani avarthanam? there was solid 20mins after the rtp !

samanth · Post by **samanth** » 26 Dec 2008, 22:25

The lack of a thani was mystifying. Or rather, there was a thani of sorts, but it was startlingly short. I got a call just as it began, so I slipped out of where I was sitting (the mini hall) to take it. I came back in after 2 minutes 32 seconds (and I know this because my phone recorded the call duration) and the thani was already over!

There was a point towards the end of the Karaharapriya, after the swarams, where I thought a thani would have fit in most naturally. But Smt. Jayashri wound up the song very decisively and moved on to the RTP. It's a mystery.

pakkavadyam · Post by **pakkavadyam** » 26 Dec 2008, 22:28

her tukkadas at the end took the place of thani !

balusatya · Post by **balusatya** » 26 Dec 2008, 22:32

THQ.Hariharans for the swift clarification of Ragas in RTP&Thillana.
one resembled Ahir Bhairav but could not recollect charukesi .Vasanthi was like bhupali. I am open for correction. Was it not too full of 22-and janya?Thani were not given the due time-TATKAL!change over & reversal of order of ragas were very nice."paluku paluku neraval " was elaborate.Violin was moderate to her standard .

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 26 Dec 2008, 23:58

I hope this is not true but is sadly emerging as a trend - Ranjani & Gayathri did something similar at BVB last year. Notwithstanding the talent of these artistes, this practise deserves to be roundly condemned by every serious music lover.

The tani has a certain place in the concert format - it should be netiher too long nor too short. One can understand a 2-3 minute Tani in a one hour afternoon concert but a primetime concert at the Academy deserves at least 10 minutes. As it is pakkavadyakaras are getting a raw deal - pandering to popular sentiments in this manner can only take the art towards ruin. I hope the organizers are taking note.

Making I am making a mountain of a molehill and perhaps there were some genuine reasons in this instance....but I feel very strongly about this.

shashi · Post by **shashi** » 27 Dec 2008, 07:40

My observation has been that nobody seems to mind the fact that B'bay Jayashree repeats the same few songs over and over again whereas the Hyderabad brothers get bashed for the same reason? From whatever I have seen, the latter definitely show a much wider repertoire.

appu · Post by **appu** » 27 Dec 2008, 09:04

Vijay, I am inclined to agree with you. Upa pakhvadyams do get a bad rap. Now to strike out a tani avartanam. Simply despicable. To all the Bombay Jayashrri and TMK's try performing a concert without pakhavadyam. That is why the greats said "Sruti mata, Laya Pita".

And yes Sashi you are also right. repetition of songs by BJ does get overlooked.

shripathi_g · Post by **shripathi_g** » 27 Dec 2008, 10:05

appu, did TMK not give a Thani too?

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 27 Dec 2008, 12:41

Las year the issue about Karaikudi Mani's extended thani @MA for TMK's concert that stole the RTP from the concert was balloned and all concerned got a good publicity in the press.

BJ would have done that with the consent of JV,I believe.

Balu Satya, Vaasanti has small dha (d1) in place of d2 in Mohanam (Bhupali) and rest all notes are same.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 27 Dec 2008, 15:11

Something slightly stronger than "seeking consent" comes to mind. Even though Jayashree is not the kind of person to intimidate anyone, percussionists are naturally under a lot of pressure to keep top stars happy. Even though the request may have been polite - and I cannot imagine Jayashree doing it any other way - accompanists can refuse only at great cost to their professional career. If this becomes a habit among everyone, tanis may become a thing of the past - that is basically my concern.

IMO, such a request should not be made at all - the mrudangist should have the freedom to pace the tani keeping in mind the concert situation. Maybe this is what really happened in this instance - but I find it hard to believe that a veteran like JV would be content with a 2 minute tani, that too with 20 minutes left.

Of course there is another side to the coin - as witnessed during TMK's concert last year. There is a norm for everything and IMO, about 10 minutes is ideal for a 2.5 hour concert.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 27 Dec 2008, 15:59

Vijay,

Agree with you.

However I feel that the request to have a "short" Tani may have sprung up during the course of the concert and not preplanned.
I presume the earlier Raga Alapanas consumed more time & look at it as a one off deviation rather than the norm in Jayashri's concerts.

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 27 Dec 2008, 16:18

Was there a large crowd exiting that lead to a short thani? Sometimes the mirdangam artist seeing this exodus is not enthused to play an usual thani. Bye Ragjay

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 27 Dec 2008, 17:14

At the very least, what I call a "CD thani" can be given; just a few avartanams, a short koraipu if there is more than one percussionist, farans, mohara and korvai. I don't like them, they are nothing but a nod to the thani --- but they are better than nothing.

I do not remember the thani in the BJ concert I attended at YGP, but I would have certainly noticed if there wasn't one!

ajsriram · Post by **ajsriram** » 27 Dec 2008, 19:34

If there are 2 pakkavadhyams, i think they can take solid 20 mins for the thani avarthanam. there are people who will come to listen to mridangam , ghatam and other stuffs too.

dhanyasi · Post by **dhanyasi** » 27 Dec 2008, 20:39

appu wrote: To all the Bombay Jayashrri and TMK's try performing a concert without pakhavadyam. That is why the greats said "Sruti mata, Laya Pita".

Was TMK added to the list as a part of "since we are bashing lets add TMK to the list" or was there a specfic instance where TMK did the same..
from the TMK concerts i have been to it has been the other way around.. the tani is sometimes longer which cuts into other pieces... and TMK on more than one occcasion urged people to sit though the tani and respect the artist... and i have heard him ask the artist like trichy shankaran to play an extended tani...

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 27 Dec 2008, 23:05

I agree with Dhanyasi - TMK has set only the best examples as far as the Tani is concerned.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 27 Dec 2008, 23:08

Sriram, I agree that great artistes like KRM can keep one occupied for hours even without upa-pakkavadyam. However in a 2.5 hour concert, the tani seemed a tad long although perhaps a monumental krithi like Mari Mari Ninne deserved a monumental tani - I certainly enjoyed every second of it!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 28 Dec 2008, 07:30

Hi all,

I cannot understand why TMK is added here.

And why worry /blame BJ for this trend without knowing the deatils. It could just be that he had a pain or a mild sprain and taking rest for the finger just to get going for the rest of the season.

Actually I felt Sanjay gives the best slot for thani. He gives the oppurtunity for thani almost in the middle of the concert and not towards the end. That way the thani artists are performing with better energy. I guess he has mentioned this in one of his interview and I have seen this many times.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Dec 2008, 09:02

Indeed, a one-off does not indicate the imminent demise of the thani! I guess that occasional concerts may, for a variety of reasons, lack it.

It is better that it should not be at the end, yes, I agree --- but then I like a concert format where the 'main' piece is just the highlight of the first half, and the second half features an RTP, along with several other songs including a tillana, rather than one that fizzles out at the end of the 'main'.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Dec 2008, 09:15

vijay wrote:I hope this is not true but is sadly emerging as a trend - Ranjani & Gayathri did something similar at BVB last year. Notwithstanding the talent of these artistes, this practise deserves to be roundly condemned by every serious music lover.

The tani has a certain place in the concert format - it should be netiher too long nor too short. One can understand a 2-3 minute Tani in a one hour afternoon concert but a primetime concert at the Academy deserves at least 10 minutes. As it is pakkavadyakaras are getting a raw deal - pandering to popular sentiments in this manner can only take the art towards ruin. I hope the organizers are taking note.

Making I am making a mountain of a molehill and perhaps there were some genuine reasons in this instance....but I feel very strongly about this.

How about running away with 17 minutes of Tani in a concert that started at 7:00 pm? The Tani started around 8:35pm and went on and on in Gayathri Vnkataraghavan's Academy concert. Nobody seems to be bothered about that long Tani!

A word to the percussion artists: We are sick and tired of hearing a Tani yet another time in 2-kalai Adi Talam that runs on and on. We are hungry; we need to find transportation to get back home; we want to listen to the vocalist; and the last thing we need is a long Tani.

If you want a long Tani avarthanam, I suggest you percussionists hold a Tala Vadya Kutcheri and see how many people turn up to hear you.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 28 Dec 2008, 09:29

Harimau, incidentally, what did you think of the 15-min thani Karaikudi Mani played in a less than 2h concert for Hyderabad Brothers at Parthasarathy Sabha?

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 28 Dec 2008, 14:47

Good one bilahari

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 28 Dec 2008, 22:41

bilahari wrote:Harimau, incidentally, what did you think of the 15-min thani Karaikudi Mani played in a less than 2h concert for Hyderabad Brothers at Parthasarathy Sabha?

If you had watched the scene, Hyderabad Brothers asked him to play Tani for that krithi and Karaikkudi Mani was reluctant to do so. He was coerced into doing it. Perhaps he wanted to play for a more compex tala than 2-kalai Adi Tala.

Anyway, the enjoyment of any particular piece depends on the mood of the listener. At 5:30 pm, one might have had coffee and tiffin and was settling down to enjoy the concert and the Tani, even if long, may not be much of a problem. The other thing that plays into it is the quality of the artist. With Karaikkudi Mani, there is nothing wishy-washy about his strokes. They are precise. The nadham of his mridangam is so much better than what you get from most other mridangists. So you get to enjoy his Tani, up to a certain length. I was among those who criticised him for his 35-minute Tani last year at the Music Academy for T M Krishna's concert. One added thing here was that I was at least spared the irritation of watching the Hyd Bros repeatedly looking at notes while singing. So, all in all, 15 minutes of Tani turned out to be good.

Why was the same Karaikkudi Mani badmouthed last year? Most people wanted to hear more of T M Krishna including the proposed RTP. They were hungry, worried about transportation to return home, etc. So folks got mad at Karaikkudi Mani. Same reasons I mentioned this time too. On top of that Manoj Siva, with all due respects, is no match for Karaikkudi Mani.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 28 Dec 2008, 23:11

No, I'm not sick and tired and, judging by the greatly-reduced thani exodus that I've seen this year, many others are not either!

The length of the thani should be appropriate. Who can say what is appropriate? Nobody: for how can it be specified? Yes, the starting and ending times of the concert are going to have something to do with that --- the artists on stage for a carnatic concert are supposed to be sensitive to their audiences, and certainly that includes the mridangist. I doubt very much indeed that many of them actually want to bore anybody.

If it is not enjoyable --- well, that's another matter, and all artists risk review, good or bad.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 29 Dec 2008, 08:38

Today I happened to watch Bj in Coffee with Anu program. She touched the same topic but lightly. Actually the topic was started by Anu indirectly about an audience . BJ replied by referring to that audience who was thrilled to hear a yeman rendition on Lord Krishna by her. I couldnot get the full conversation. And I want to be very careful here. And she said " for Her, raga comes first and then devabhakti ". Offcourse Krishna came later. I mean TMK.

HeyNarayana · Post by **HeyNarayana** » 03 Jan 2009, 03:02

In response to Harimau and Bilahari's question regarding Man's Tani. From what I gathered sitting close to the stage, he was reluctant to play due to the presence of AIR not because of Tala. I wish senior artists like them should be little more sensitive to the time and adjust their Tani. I was at Mandolin Srinivas concert and enjoying, there come the Tani round which felt like never ending.
Coming to artists looking at notes while singing, I wish they get a break. It is better than watching a senior atist like Unni Krishnan forgetting the lyric while singing at SIMA, Los Angeles. So relax and enjoy the music for the sake of music and try to ignore these.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 03 Jan 2009, 07:03

appu wrote:
Vijay, I am inclined to agree with you. Upa pakhvadyams do get a bad rap. Now to strike out a tani avartanam. Simply despicable. To all the Bombay Jayashrri and TMK's try performing a concert without pakhavadyam. That is why the greats said "Sruti mata, Laya Pita".

Yes, the sages were ahead of their time.

For the last several years, it has been a scientific fact that "pita" is a useless construct in biology. It is possible to apply an electric charge to an ovum and have it start dividing.

About 2000 years back (give or take a couple of decades), the same was considered a miracle and folks all over the world celebrate that day as Christmas. And if you check the dates, Bombay Jayashree's concert was the day after Christmas!

If all these accompanists recognize that their job is to provide support to the main artist and not bang away on their drums or saw away at their fiddles, concerts would be more enjoyable to people who want to listen to honest ragas rendered honestly.

ajsriram · Post by **ajsriram** » 03 Jan 2009, 13:05

HeyNarayana wrote:In response to Harimau and Bilahari's question regarding Man's Tani. From what I gathered sitting close to the stage, he was reluctant to play due to the presence of AIR not because of Tala. I wish senior artists like them should be little more sensitive to the time and adjust their Tani. I was at Mandolin Srinivas concert and enjoying, there come the Tani round which felt like never ending.
Coming to artists looking at notes while singing, I wish they get a break. It is better than watching a senior atist like Unni Krishnan forgetting the lyric while singing at SIMA, Los Angeles. So relax and enjoy the music for the sake of music and try to ignore these.

It was pre decided that 1 hr of concert should be recorded by the AIR staff members. The order was given by Hyd.bros and they have decided for the songs the AIR people should record and gave ample time for the thani too. I was on the stage when these things happened and it was perfect 1 hr relay by AIR

I dont know how many of you heard this.
Infact Hyd.bros told the AIR members that he is a AIR Staff and he knows what to be given for an hour.

ajsriram · Post by **ajsriram** » 03 Jan 2009, 13:15

harimau wrote: How about running away with 17 minutes of Tani in a concert that started at 7:00 pm? The Tani started around 8:35pm and went on and on in Gayathri Vnkataraghavan's Academy concert. Nobody seems to be bothered about that long Tani!

A word to the percussion artists: We are sick and tired of hearing a Tani yet another time in 2-kalai Adi Talam that runs on and on. We are hungry; we need to find transportation to get back home; we want to listen to the vocalist; and the last thing we need is a long Tani.

If you want a long Tani avarthanam, I suggest you percussionists hold a Tala Vadya Kutcheri and see how many people turn up to hear you.

Aadi talam Rendu kalai

It surely depends on who plays the thani, what he plays and how he plays. If you are really hungry, you can take off from the concert. There are N people who wait for the thani ALSO.

Its is very sure that there might be few people turn up for thani avarthanam, but people who turn up are "CLASS RASIKAS" and not masses. I am not sure if you have seen the Pachavadhyam concert in Jan 1st. There was very very very less
"CHAIRS" left empty.

regards
Sriram J. Iyer

ajsriram · Post by **ajsriram** » 03 Jan 2009, 13:26

harimau wrote:I was among those who criticised him for his 35-minute Tani last year at the Music Academy for T M Krishna's concert. One added thing here was that I was at least spared the irritation of watching the Hyd Bros repeatedly looking at notes while singing. So, all in all, 15 minutes of Tani turned out to be good.

Why was the same Karaikkudi Mani badmouthed last year? Most people wanted to hear more of T M Krishna including the proposed RTP. They were hungry, worried about transportation to return home, etc. So folks got mad at Karaikkudi Mani. Same reasons I mentioned this time too. On top of that Manoj Siva, with all due respects, is no match for Karaikkudi Mani.

Sure, It was not for 35 Minutes. shall post the exact timings tonight!

regards

ajsriram · Post by **ajsriram** » 04 Jan 2009, 08:26

KRM-TMK 2007 Academy concert, concert total time is 2hrs and 30 mins, thani avarthanam time exactly 23 Mins.