meaning of padam "ela padare"(adinomu)in begada

[venkatakrishnan]

can somebody send me the meaning of the padam ela padare(adi nomu)?

[Lakshman]

adi nOmu phalamu. rAgA: bEgaDa. tripuTa tALA.

P: adi nomu phalamu
A: yAla padareme muvvagOpAlunito pondu
C: minci payyada nunci cAla lAlinci
vErani encaka manci vAnivale
mincagaluguTE cancalAkshirO koncama O celiyarO

[tyagarajadasa]

Dear Savitri Madam,

May I urge you to post meanings for this padam please?

Thanks,
Gokul

[aaaaabbbbb]

I have a slightly different version of this padam::

adi nOmu PhalamO O celiyA
padaravE muvvagOpAluni tOnu[p]

DhanamucEta javvanamu cEta cakkadanamuna naTanE Ghanatalu
vinayamu jANatanamu galuguTa vinutikekkarE vanitalu[a.p]

minci payyeda nunci cAla lAlinci vEranI yencaka
mancivAni ramincagaluguTa cancalAkShirO[c1]

mEluvADu ninnElina muvvagOpAlu nEcuTadi mElaTavE
nAlimuccu gayyALivaina nIkeTu kalguvE tAlimi[c2]

[keerthi]

Savitriji,

Is this from Rajanikanta Rao's book? I have given the text per Mancala JagannAtha Rao's edition. [His text is always a bit different, even for the most common padams]

Padarevu is the anupallavi. adi nOmu phalamu is the pallavi.

In the Dhanammal tradition, they sing the AP as Ela padarEvu. This is not seen in any texts, and also fractures the pallavi-anupallavi prAsa concordance.They were criticised by V.A.K.Ranga Rao for making this and other changes in the lyrics. However the family (definitely Brinda-Mukta) was known for not changing things from the way they had learnt it.

AP - | adi nOmu phalamE O celiyA |

P - | padarakavE muvvagOpAlunitOnu |

C1 - Dhanamu cEta javvanamu cEta cakka - danamuna naTavE Ghanatalu |
vinayamu jANatanamu galuguTa - vinutikekkarE vanitalu ||

C2 - minci() payyeda nunci cAla lA - linci vEranI yencaka
mancivAni raminca kaluguTa cancalAkShirO! koncamA!||

C3 - EluvADu ninnElina muvvagO - pAlu nEcuTadi mElaTavE
nAlimuccu gayyALivaina nIkEla kalgunE tAlimi||
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The dhanammal version -

AP - |(Ela) padarEvu muvvagOpAlunitO pondu |

P - | adi nOmu phalamE ||


C - | manci payyeda nunci cAla lA - linci vEranI yOcincaka |
| manci vAni vale minca galuguTE - cancalAkshirO koncama O celiyarO | adi nOmu ||

[aaaaabbbbb]

keerthi Ji,
My reference is from the book by Sri Vissa Apparaogaru.

[tyagarajadasa]

Keerthi,

The Anupallavi in Dhanammal's version is as follows:

AP - Ela padarEvE muvvagOpAlunitO pondu |

Could you please check!

It would be great if someone posts the meanings/gist too

Regards,
Gokul

[aaaaabbbbb]

My friend,this is the fruit of the vow.[vrat]

Hasten, to be with muvva gOpAla[p]

Greatness is not achieved by riches,by youth,or by beauty.

possesing humility, inteligence are the laudable qualities for women[c1]

O woman with wavering eyes,excellence, [in devotion] keeping him in your heart,soothing him,

the capabality of playing with him, thinking of Him as oneself,[c2],

Is it proper to torment The Superior One,The lord muvva gOpAla who rules you?

Being a traitor,shrew.how can you be patient?[c3]

[tyagarajadasa]

Dear Savitri Madam,

Thank you so much! I am unable to understand the context for this. Would you be able to provide a background about the woman who is talking her?

Regards,
Gokul

[mukta]

Beautiful padam.The underlying meaning that one should be simple
and devoted and patient to achieve salvation, is marvellous.

[aaaaabbbbb]

I am not able to write about the context.

[archa]

In the Dhanammal tradition, they sing the AP as Ela padarEvu. This is not seen in any texts, and also fractures the pallavi-anupallavi prAsa concordance.They were criticised by V.A.K.Ranga Rao for making this and other changes in the lyrics. However the family (definitely Brinda-Mukta) was known for not changing things from the way they had learnt it.

Of course. They make a lot of mistakes in sahitya. They simply didn't care about offending the composer whether it was Thyagaraja, Dikshitar or anyone else. I have heard VAK lamenting about the scarce respect the Dhanammal family gives to sahitya. They were stubborn it seems. I have heard that even if pointed out, they never corrected their mistakes. Add to this their wrong interpretations of ragas, like Paras, Gaulipantu, Begada and many others and we don't understand why certain people were mad about their so called music though they were very few in number. Did Brinda, Mukta have anywhere near about 500 admirers? I doubt it. But the hype does not seem to die down as witnessed in this site itself. Pity.

[vasanthakokilam]

archa: take it a bit easy. Your Ad Hominems may hijack this thread off topic. As far as this site is concerned, there is no bias for or against any school. Any such impressions are in the mind of the beholder.

[archa]

Certain things will have to be said whatever the thread. I was only responding to keerthi's observations. There's no question of my hijacking any thread. I post only relevant opinions.

[keerthi]

Gokul,
You are right. They sing it ela padarEvE muvvagOpAlunitO pondu.


archa,

It is the right and prerogative of each student /artiste to decide for themself what they do with the legacy they inherit. Some of us are straddled with these notions of 'authentic' and 'correct' and we take it upon ourselves to fit the music we inherit into the framework imposed by those notions.

Some have the idea that the art form is greater than any part of it such as the lyric or the rAga structure, and emphasise the transmission of their legacy with 'fidelity'.

For those of us who are much removed from tyAgarAja and ksEtrayya, it is futile to insist that this or that version is more authentic. Would you change passages in the Veda and in vAlmiki's Adikavya since they don't conform to the rules of pANini..?
A most disappointing feature of the community that engages in 'talking' about music seems to be a near-fundamentalist intolerance for multiple identities, multiple pAThAntarams and a plurality of performing styles.

Yes, there are many people who claim allegiance to/affection for the music of the dhanammal school since it is a fashionable thing to do. There are also many, many people who have been deeply moved, stirred, even transformed by their music. And many of those people can describe why and how that music is special.

I hope, that the rasika in you is someday able to see and appreciate the finesse of the delicate filigree that Dhanammal's children and grandchildren crafted through their lives and music.

[anandmurty]

archa,
I don't post very often because I am constantly in doubt of my own capabilities in 'talking about music' (considering I have only heard and never formally learnt music) as keerthi says. But I do feel compelled to address you based on what you've written.

To begin with, your post isn't a mere expression of an opinion - it is written with the tone and manner of passing judgement on those who think differently from you - it's an expression of intolerance. It is this intolerance that leads to, in my humble opinion, stereotyping and pigeonholing of an entire art form.

Secondly, to buttress your judgement, you seem to offer a 'measure' in terms of 'popularity' or as you call it, 'number of admirers'. The only true measure, in the arts, is longevity. The fact is, the music of the Dhanammal school finds an audience even now. There is still curiosity about their lives, a desire to understand and uncover musical subtleties that, given an open mind, have the potency to take over one's being. What greater measure does one need?

Getting back to the topic of the thread, it's a delight to find meanings of Padams being discussed. 'When God Is Customer' by A.K.Ramanujan and others is a phenomenal read because it makes pseudo-Telugus like me (who spoke English at home and learnt the mother tongue much much later) appreciate the literary devices employed and how the composer plays with various voices in putting forth a point of view.

[archa]

keerthi, anandmurty, I respect your opinions. But there are some who are Dhanammal music fanatics and they don't tolerate the music of other greats like even DKP, MLV, MS, MMI, SSI, GNB etc. I read some years back a letter written by a certain M.K.Chubby Raj in 'Sruti'. He said that true CM rasikas consider only the music of Dhanammal family members and Rajaratnam Pillai as real music and the others' music like ARI, SSI, Mali etc., were not authentic CM, mainly because they sang fast music and could not sing/play viLamba kalam. To which Alleppey Venkatesan replied in the next issue: 'Who are these unfortunate rasikas who did not understand Ariyakkudi's chauka kala sri subramanyaya namaste or Mali's mandra staayi meditation in Kanada. It takes a lot of maturity to appreciate Mali and Ariyakkudi's deep music". He added that he pitied such 'so called rasikas'.

I may not be musically as mature as you two, but I know there are people who are fanatics of that style and who say that only B-M, Bala, Viswa are great musicians and their versions of songs are the most authentic because they got most of their songs from the horses' mouth (the Trinity) itself. When they lived B-M got the least crowd for their concerts. Bala got the least crowds for her dance. That is why they were jealous of crowd pullers like MS and Kumari Kamala.

I met a person a few years ago who was a disciple of the family and listened to his rantings about the family's great music. He himself sang and some of us who were listening had to frequently yawn. Of course, there were a couple of people who were so enamoured of the music that they looked upon him like a god. I didn't understand the adulation. There was no appeal in that music. Ditto to the gurus/members of that family.

I hold my opinion and have a right to express it here. And I welcome this debate. Please continue. We need to have multiple opinions in this forum.

[tyagarajadasa]

I hold my opinion and have a right to express it here. And I welcome this debate. Please continue. We need to have multiple opinions in this forum.

Dear archa,
You certainly hold the right to express your opinions. Could you please find another sub-forum/topic under rasikas.org to do so? This particular forum and topic has nothing to do with "opinions". In fact it will spoil the mood of many readers and guests who simply want to know lyrics and meanings of compositions, especially since you are expressing your opinions quite harshly.

As far as your incriminations against those who blindly follow Dhanammal family go, why don't you deal with them personally? If they are not able to enjoy others' music, isn't it their problem? Likewise, if you are not able to enjoy Dhanammal's music, isn't it your problem? Has anyone from rasikas.org committed a crime by enjoying Dhanammal's music?

Also, do you have anecdotes/proofs for your statement: "That is why they were jealous of crowd pullers like MS and Kumari Kamala". I think you are going way overboard.

@Moderators, May I request you to move the "debate" on Dhanammal's family elsewhere?

Regards,
Gokul

[varsha]

Is there a case for debate ? Is someone starting it now ? What is the debate about ? Dhanammal on one side and Academy , Ariyakudi , Mali , TNR , popular Kamala , Popular MS , DKP on the other? Who said that ones who put BM on a pedestal do not appreciate others music . ( Ignore that chubby raj for a moment )
Is there more to ARI ' s music than subramnyaya namasthe ? More to Mali's music than that whatever sthayi alapana ? More to MS'S music than crowds flocking to buy the same kind of blue saree or learn the same bhajans from her specific tunesmith ( depending on the wide array of songs she included in her repertoire ?
Very often at the highest level in such arts , folks who can appreciate and idolise BM , can AND DO APPRECIATE others music too . The same may not be true , the other way round .
As a wise man once said

A MAN may look into the eyes of his lady-love to see that they are beautiful. But no normal lady will allow that young man to look into her eyes to see whether they are beautiful.

It is true that the exploitation of the brand value of that school is a bit painful today . Simply because the ones doing it , would not have dared to do it in B's presence , were she alive .But the concept of vanity publishing entered this forum long long ago and most of us take it with good humour .
It is also true that some flaunt their liking of that school as an index of their personal musical maturity . ( much like my cousin who would subscribe to one of the only 10 copies of THE HINDU that came to my sleepy town at 6 PM in the 60s- and he would read it in full view of the town , to send an impression that his English was above the level of all other lowly townsmen )
What little is being said in praise of that school , is being said here , with a lot of devotion and understanding . It is a subject on which there can be more than one opinion , but we don't have to be disagreeable . Dancing like a butterfly and stinging like a bee was what the music of that school was about . If one can end up only seeing the dancing like a bee and stinging like a butterfly it is understandable .(With apologies to Muhammed Ali )
Classical music was never about popular following . And that is the price , classicists have to pay in any field of endeavour . And the true ones know the realities.

[vasanthakokilam]

@Moderators, May I request you to move the "debate" on Dhanammal's family elsewhere?

Regards,
Gokul

Yup. We will do so later. No time now.

[RaviSri]

archa don't disturb this thread. I have replied to your insinuation against B-M in Vidwans & Vidhushis.
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4821