Mishrakapi

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 08 Feb 2009, 11:27

karnatik.com is my reference website for raga details.
I am not able to find 'mishrakapi' in that raga database.
What is the ascend and descend swaras of this raga?
From the name of the raga this must be a hindustani raga.
Then what is the chaya swaras?
CT

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 08 Feb 2009, 12:14

The song 'poonguyil koovum' by kalki Krishnmoorthy is in misra kapi-some say it is hindustani kapi.
Mambalam sisters have rendered it here.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xte4XgOP_v4

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 08 Feb 2009, 12:18

ct, you won't find "mishrakapi" listed in any Carnatic raga list any more than you'll find "okapi" the African giraffe-like animal or "topkapi" the palace in Istanbul

.

Mishra-Kafi is a hindustani raga with the Kafi raga (KHPriya) as the base and many other swaras thrown in, similar to our own kaapi.

So one might say that Kapi raga of Carnatic parallels mishra-kafi somewhat.
(this last statement is erroneous, but I haven't edited it out).

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 08 Feb 2009, 12:27

CT, maybe this belongs more in the raga section?

Anyhow, my understanding is that most of the Kapi going around these days is indeed broadly categorised as Mishra (mixed with anya swaras, though even the original correct scale of Kapi may be debatable).

1. Ranjani and Gayathri explain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-6hNnTFdso
2. SAWF website says: http://www.sawf.org/bin/tips.dll/gettip ... ors&arch=1
"Kafi is accorded a great deal of latitude in the interest of ranjakatva. In all kshudra ragas, 'contamination' on account of swaras not part of their intrinsic makeup is par for the course. A 'pure' version of Kafi is seldom heard in performance; almost all instances fall to the Mishra Kafi lot. With this understanding, here and in the ragas to follow, the explicit Mishra qualifier shall be dispensed with altogether. Bear in mind that strict conformity to etiquette is not expected of kshudra ragas."
3. Pt Budhaditya Mukherjee on the sitar rendering this raga elaborately (With some very lovely subtle touches- sounds distinctly different from our Jagadodharana/ Intha Sowkhya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIm0fwlouCE

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 08 Feb 2009, 16:35

I think the hindustani equivalent is pilu (peelu) .gobilalitha

devi · Post by **devi** » 08 Feb 2009, 21:12

Here's an explanation provided by Sri Rama Varma before embarking on a very engaging rendition of 'Vihara manasa rame' in Pilu-fied Kapi or Kapilu (as expressed by a canny pal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KLfzWjhGXE

regards,
Devi

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 09 Feb 2009, 07:49

Following the lead of MS Amma, a dash of dried ginger (sukku), perhaps?

Though my preference is for adding in some crushed chocolate or syrup, to make a delicious mocha...

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 10 Feb 2009, 08:24

vainika wrote:Following the lead of MS Amma, a dash of dried ginger (sukku), perhaps?

Though my preference is for adding in some crushed chocolate or syrup, to make a delicious mocha...

Or a Vanilla/Hazel Nut Latte

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 10 Feb 2009, 11:25

How about an Illy Espresso with a small dash of milk? That is about all the 'mishram' I can take

devi · Post by **devi** » 10 Feb 2009, 13:20

:p incorrigible caffeine addicts

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 11 Feb 2009, 08:24

I attended a lecdem on ragams in MA.(Had good filter kaapi!)
It was mentioned that the kapi raga was known by the name 'Rudrapriya'.
The kriti 'amba para devathe ' by Sri Nainapillai got a specila mebtion.
Am I right in saying that when a song mostly a bajan is sung in kaapi ragam it takes the mishrakapi?
In CM kritis , ii is not done so.
Have a strong kaapi and reply please !
CT

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 11 Feb 2009, 12:44

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 11 Feb 2009, 16:04

coolkarni wrote:As I discovered recently,while seeing you drop a hefty scoop of Rajeshs Icecream onto your piping hot coffee.

I deny these charges and strongly protest this character decaffeination!

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 11 Feb 2009, 18:51

vainika,
say 'ICECREAM'-(I SCREAM)

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 13 Feb 2009, 10:58

Ramki - kApi kooDa ice-cream nalla 'illy'A?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Feb 2009, 14:44

lOkO 'mishra' ruci--I like my hazel nut brew like ksrimech.
By, the way, kApi (kAfi) too in rAgAs, mishr or not...

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 13 Feb 2009, 16:55

I wish a kummonam(KUMBAKONAM) member post a tasty review of degree kapi ., not to forget the pugayilai seeval. our forum really requires some lighter moments. very much pained by the personal mud slinging of late. gobilallitha

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 13 Feb 2009, 17:15

ChitraT.,

the comment about rudrapriya and (hindustani)Kapi came from the pen of Subbarama dikshitar, in the sampradaya pradarshini... there must have been a strong semblance between the rudrapriya and kaapi of his time. This kaapi/karnataka kapi/ kanada/hindustani kapi discussion/debate is a ripe old one!

other/lesser eyes of this storm are darbAr and rudrapriya.

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 14 Feb 2009, 23:26

Many of us are aware that ragas are generally classified into 3 varieties,viz.Sampoornam, Shadavam and Oudavam . These are further divided into 3 seperate varieties, thus total 9 varieties of janya ragas exist for each Mela raga.

Ragas like Kapi, Bhairavi, Piloo have some unique features, where most of the notes out of the 'dwadasa swaras' ( 12 notes,ie. S+P + both Komal and Teevra swaras of RGMDN). Because of this fact, these ragas cannot be accommodated into any of the above 9 varieties and hence remain a raga known as 'sankeerna-jaathi ' raga.

A misra raga is one which possess the qualities of a sankeerna raga. The word 'misra' refers to mixing of some swaras/notes in the Arohana krama or Avarohana krama, in such a way that such prayogas only adds beauty of the janya raga and its bhava, brings out ranjitha-bhava to the raga, without altering its individuality. This practice is not allowed/acceptable in Carnatic Music as it will alter individuality of the raga totally. Ofcouse there are Bhashanga ragas in CM which entertains anya-swaras into it,eg. Bhairavi Ragam, but are very rare.

Misra ragas are more used in HM, especially for singing Bhajans. Rarely one can hear a raga 'alapan' in a misra raga, say for eg.an alapan of rag Misra Kapi, Misra Piloo, Misra Pahadi, Misra Mand, Misra Yaman, Misra Bhilawal,Misra Kamaj, etc etc. Lot of devotional Bhajans as also few film songs are only heard sung in Misra ragas. It is very difficult to set the Arohana and Avarohana notes to a Misra raga. Hence misra ragas do not normally find a place in any of the Books containing list of ragas.

A song in Misra Kapi or Misra Yaman or any misra variety of raga, sung by an artist, need not sound the same to another song in the same misra type rag. Though the name of the raga for both the songs are given same vis. Misra Kapi, Misra Kamaj, Misra Yaman etc., they sounds different. This is so because the foreign note used out of the 12 swaras do differ.

To confirm this aspect, please listen to the following 2 songs. All the 2 songs are sung in the rag Misra Kapi but totally different compared to each, though they maintain the individuality of its parent raga " Kafi " .

1) This song is an Abhang " Janmovari kele dhyana" in the rag - Misra kapi. Listen to the song on this link;

http://www.mediafire.com/?nddx9jsjnsj

Note: In this song, the singer has used both Komal and Teevra Nishadams. (ie. the lyric 'visarooni ' is sung using both nishads( ie. ni dha nee sa) The nishada prayoga here is similar to the nishada prayoga in the rag 'Miyan-ki-Malhar . This misra note but does add beauty to the song and at the same time doesnot alter its mela/That idendity as well.

2) The Sai Bhajan " Dhanava Bhanjana Ram "
The link is:

http://www.mediafire.com/?jbmkjlxndnx

This sai bhajan is sung in rag Misra Kapi but is totally different from the song no.1 referred above. This Misra kapi is sung in the Madhyama Sruthi with Teevra Gandhar, Komal Daivath as misra-notes. The presence of teevra nishad is not felt, as in the case of the first song, above.

3) The popular Tulsidas Bhajan " Bhajuman Ram charan din rati" sung by Guruji HH.Haridos Giri in Misra Kapi. The link is:

http://www.mediafire.com/?vegxiymedej

Here the Komal Daivatham, Teevra Gandharam are used as misra notes. The nee swara (teevra ni) does not sound in this song. This song is also sung in the Madhyama Sruthi .
The song no. 2 and this song have some similarities.

There is no raga by name 'kapi' in HM. The ' Kafi ' that of HM has similarity with that of 22nd mela of CM( Kharaharapriya). There are popular Kritis and film songs found composed in raga Kapi. The raga Kapi , by the name itself , is popular and much easier for a listener to identify also, may be through the popularity for the song "enna thavam saideno" or other popular kirtans in this rag.

But it looks very odd and funny to know that, the name "Kapi " does not find a place in the most popular book of Dr. S. Bhagyalakshmi titled " Ragas in Carnatic Music". All the popular songs familiar to every one of us, eg.Enna tavam Saideno, Meevalla Guna dosha etc., have been classified under " Hindusthani Kapi" in this book. There are about 25 songs classified as Hind.Kapi and not a single song is named under 'rag "Kapi '' in the book. Again there is another popular raga book of sri. K.S.Subrahmani containing details of about 1500 ragas. Here again, the rag Kapi is not found included under the janya raga of mela 22. However, the ' Ragapravaham " book of Sri. Dandapani and Smt. Pattammal( page 124 sl. No. 103) had given 8 different types of arohanam Avarohanams to Rag Kapi.

There is no raga by name Kapi in HM. Misra ragas are prominant only in HM. So Misra Kapi or "misra Kafi " can be only a Hinduthani Raga. Normally, there cannot be any equivalant ragas in CM for Misra type ragas of Hindusthani Music. Misra kapi/misra kafi rag is sung both in the Shadja griha as well as in the Madhyama sruthi. Misra Kapi when sung in the Madhyama sruti sounds similar to Rag Piloo, due some common phrases and foreign notes that appear in both these two ragas.
Despite the similarity, The rag Piloo shines well, only when sung in the Madhyama Sruti, whereas the rag Misra Kapi/kafi shines well in both ways, viz. Sadja griha & Madhyama Sruti.

Therefore, my views are that, the raga name given as 'Kapi ' refers to the group name and not as an individual raga. The Kapi/Kafi group have many varieties of Kapi viz. Misra kapi, Hindusthani Kapi, Dhana Kapi, Karnataka Kapi, Palasi Kapi etc. This may also be the reason that the rag Kapi doesnot have a single- type Arohana Avarohana. All the 8 types Aroh &Avarohs given in the book Ragapravaham, though different shows common Raga bhavam.

Rasikas views on this posting are most welcome, so that, will help to improve my knowledge of music.

Radhekrishna
Hariharan.

chitrathiagarajan · Post by **chitrathiagarajan** » 17 Feb 2009, 07:20

Thanks Mr Hariharan.The your reply is very informative.
In HM instead of arohana -avarohana chaya of the ragas is taught.
Am I right in saying so?
CT

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 17 Feb 2009, 08:06

thanks Mr. Hariharan, I wonder what else has to be taught to you by rasikas!!!! trying to add more water to Pacific ocean!! gobilalitha

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 17 Feb 2009, 13:10

chitrathiagarajan wrote:Thanks Mr Hariharan.The your reply is very informative.
In HM instead of arohana -avarohana chaya of the ragas is taught.
Am I right in saying so?
CT

CT
The visesha sancharas will have some unique Swara- combinations that helps to brings out the idendity of a particular raga. They are called 'pakkad' in HM. The demonstration of any raga in HM is not only its Aroh, Avaroh but also its ' Pakkad. ' Such visesha prayog/sanchara appear frequently in the ragas. Hence Pakkad are very important constituent of any Hind. raga.

Radhekrishna

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 17 Feb 2009, 13:58

gobilalitha wrote:thanks Mr. Hariharan, I wonder what else has to be taught to you by rasikas!!!! trying to add more water to Pacific ocean!! gobilalitha

Our rasikas forum is having a very active participation by eminent Vaggeyakaras, Vidwans and Vidushis like you and to earn a word of compliments from such personalities, is indeed a moment of pleasure to me. My music knowledge is very shallow and will never be deep as the pacific ocean. Hence I often request, to correct for any errors, in my postings. I wish I will start learning music from sa pa sa at east in my next birth from the very age of 5 unlike in this birth !

Radhekrishna
Hariharan

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 17 Feb 2009, 14:19

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 19 Feb 2009, 16:57

postno 23 of Sri Hariharan. I too missed a golden opportunity to learn music from sa,pa,sa whenI was a student of Madura college, Madurai in the late forties, when SRIC.S.SANKARASIVAM ,GURU OF SRI TNS used to visit our house daily to have a friendly chat with my grandfather, who was a taala specialist. I spent my time discussing cricket , listening to KLSaigal, Pankaj mullick,KC DEY and film music by Naushad, opnayyar, SHANKAR JAIKISHEN developing A LIFELONG TASTE FOR HINDI FILM MUSIC. If there is a next birth for me as a southindian, I will devote my entire life for carnatic music