Business Practices at Tirupati Temple :)

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 11 Feb 2009, 23:44

Few days ago, I had written about a composition of Purandara Dasa mentioning restaurants in Tirupati;

Today, it is about a haridasa composition (somewhat sarcastic) about 'business practices' at Tirupati, in the 16th century.

This is a pada by Kanaka Dasaru

Here it goes:

bandevayya gOvinda Shetty: http://tinyurl.com/bqevbn

-Ramakriya

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 12 Feb 2009, 02:19

Thanks Ramakriya - that was hilarious - I guess some practices never change, except that the amount charged outpaces inflation several fold!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 12 Feb 2009, 03:05

devotion to Lord with intent to materialism!

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 12 Feb 2009, 03:54

VK RAMAN wrote:devotion to Lord with intent to materialism!

Isn't that how it is most of the time??

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Feb 2009, 16:58

ramakriya,
A 'jewel' of a song! Thank you Neelanjana for keeping an eye for such goodies (all of them, described in the song!) and of course to Lakshman (hanumAn, CML would say) for fetching this tasty morsel in a trice for neither jewel, cash or steep interest. His interest in lyrics makes us all rich like that sEsha giri vAsA

srinivasrgvn,
This song is one of those nindA stutis that are born out of the immense love the poets have for the gods. It is like our calling our darling children and grandchildren names (really, like you thief and such, seeing the child in the image of krishnA). EVery language has such fun verses like this...

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 13 Feb 2009, 00:28

srinivasrgvn wrote:I don't understand. Are you translating a "Devarnama" in a sarcastic way? or are you doing something else?

No - I am not translating it sarcastically ; Sarcasm is in-built in this song!

-Ramakriya

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 Feb 2009, 00:59

I wish kanakadasa had snuck in pAlAbhishEkam in his sarcasm. pAlAbhishEkam bothers me a bit, wasting all that nutritional drink when there is much hunger around.

It looks like the dAsAs had a bit of Buddhist streak in them, sniping away ever so gently at the various temple practises.

vganesh · Post by **vganesh** » 13 Feb 2009, 13:12

Any "devaru" nama is soaked in Bhakthi.

pAlAbhishEkam bothers me a bit, wasting all that nutritional drink when there is much hunger around.

Thats an interesting observation. I felt in olden days because our ancestors kept everything around temples; this pAlAbhisheka theertham, could have been a medicine as this came along with medicinal values of moolavigraha. Though the value could have lost nowadays

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 Feb 2009, 14:10

VK,
Nutritious milk, instead of being given to children who need nourishment, goes down the drain--not because the gods necessarily ask for this 'pampering'. At least, for every measure of milk the bhakthas bring to the temples, if they give an equal amount to poor children! When I went to Tirupathi after a thirty years' gap, I was dazzled by all the diamonds which covered Him! Yes,He did wear diamonds before, but this was something I could not have imagined. How beautiful the tulasi and flower garlands looked in my childhood days, with various gems sparkling here and there on His person! Then again, how many children might have been given higher education with that money, I thought...

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 13 Feb 2009, 14:59

I believe Saint Tyagaraja has composed a few kritis in which he has expressed his displeasure at such practices and rituals? Can't recall the songs offhand...

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 13 Feb 2009, 15:20

Strangely, the only thing I remember of the Thirupathi deity is all the dazzling alangAram, which is about all I saw in four or five seconds before the priest shooed me away.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 13 Feb 2009, 17:08

Vasanthakokilam, arasi,

there is a vachana by basavana which echoes your ideas.
He laments the people who offer milk to a snake made of stone; but beat to death a living, breathing snake...!

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 13 Feb 2009, 20:03

as long as the list furnishing details about "abhishEkams an its results" exist, this practice will be a never ending story only...

a decade ago, my neighbour prayed for his son's getting good marks in a subject and bought a lakshArchana ticket in a temple in kuLathur near Perambur. but, the boy failed and my friend met me after this and was polambifying about this...

"see, you bought a ticket for Rs.30. You got variety of prasAdhams.

laddu - 4.00
cloth bag - 7.00
plastic bucket - 14.00
doller - 3.00

so, in total Rs. 28.

you thought you had given Rs.30 to swami for 80% marks, but you brought back 28... what your son has acquired is the mark for the remaining Rs.2 only.... so, ask your son to work hard and try for a better result. the belief in God or what HE can do is, he can make your son's paper go to a good man who is cool while correcting the papers"

prayers on commission basis or barter system is always questionable.

God allows only one exchange offer....

"jnAnA for agjnAnA"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 15 Feb 2009, 09:49

Even in human transactions, 'barter' is better (I do not mean it in the commercial sense). It is give and take, and speaks of human kindness. 'Commission' has no pllace in it. In the barter of the other kind, you surrender, giving your all. The 'giver' gives gnyAnA, and takes your 'all' in exchange--your agnyAnA too!
Now, that's a bargain

rrao13 · Post by **rrao13** » 19 Feb 2009, 04:59

Namaskara Shri Ramakriya: I have taken the liberty of citing your web site reference in a different message board which is a knowledge forum on the religious aspects of Maadhva sampradaya to get a closer insight/different interpretation of the Kanaka Dasa composiiton that you provided. I hope that is OK with you; if not, do let me know and I will delete the post from that board.

Do you know of any other Haridasa krithis where Ninda Stuthi (or anything similar which has non-positive connotations of God) is employed?. If you find some, do let me know.

Thanks.

kjrao · Post by **kjrao** » 19 Feb 2009, 05:21

'Yake nirdayanadeyo' - can it be considered Ninda stuthi ?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Feb 2009, 11:35

or anything similar which has non-positive connotations of God

I would not consider the composition under discussion as 'non-positive connotation of God', but may be 'non-positive connotation of the temple'.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 19 Feb 2009, 12:35

What is the etymology for the word/name Timmappa? Hearing it for the first time

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Feb 2009, 15:28

srkris,
Timman in tamizh is a monkey; also a name you use while teasing someone, like tiruvAzhattAn (a dimwitted person). Something similar exists in kannaDa too, I guess. Ramakriya, please verify.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 19 Feb 2009, 20:39

I was thinking it was something related to "tirumalai appa" which might have become "timmala-appa" and then "timmappa". Just a wild guess

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 19 Feb 2009, 21:36

srkris wrote:I was thinking it was something related to "tirumalai appa" which might have become "timmala-appa" and then "timmappa". Just a wild guess

Probably you are correct in your guess

But have to check some strong linguistic sources before conforming the etymology!

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 19 Feb 2009, 21:40

rrao13 wrote:Namaskara Shri Ramakriya: I have taken the liberty of citing your web site reference in a different message board which is a knowledge forum on the religious aspects of Maadhva sampradaya to get a closer insight/different interpretation of the Kanaka Dasa composiiton that you provided. I hope that is OK with you; if not, do let me know and I will delete the post from that board.

Do you know of any other Haridasa krithis where Ninda Stuthi (or anything similar which has non-positive connotations of God) is employed?. If you find some, do let me know.

Thanks.

rrao:

It's my pleasure. Feel free to post links to any of my writings. Also, if there is a discussion on that in other fora, I'd appreciate you posting links to that as well

There are a large number of ninda stutis. You have given me a new idea for a new post

A few that come to my mind immediately are 'Aru badukidarayya' , 'taraLe ranne kappu maiyava' etc.

-Ramakriya

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Feb 2009, 22:42

srkris,
A good guess. I like guesses too and sometimes get told off for my being off the mark!

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 19 Feb 2009, 22:48

arasi wrote:srkris,
Timman in tamizh is a monkey; also a name you use while teasing someone, like tiruvAzhattAn (a dimwitted person). Something similar exists in kannaDa too, I guess. Ramakriya, please verify.

Arasi,

Tirumala is full of monkeys. What ever the etymology of the word timmappa may be, it is not faulty to say He is the leader to the monkeys too. There are numerous references in itihAsas, purANas and azhvAr aruLiccheyals for this. The following is by bhUdattAzhvAr.

iyarpA: irenDAm tiruvandAdi pAsuram 72

pOdaRindu vAnarangaL pUncunaipukku
Angalarnda pOdarinthu koNdEtthum pOdu
uLLam! pOdum aNi vENgaDavan malaraDikkE sella
aNi vENgaDavan pEraaynthu.

blackadder · Post by **blackadder** » 23 Feb 2009, 14:27

I heard this a long time ago:

A great devotee of Ganesha promised that he will break a coconut every time his prayers were answered. Lest he should forget the count, he made a note of each in his diary. Once a friend asked him how the accounting was coming along. The reply, "Ganesha owes me three coconuts".

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 25 Feb 2009, 06:50

After Tirupati, Udupi restaurants, and questionable business practices, here is Purandara Dasa on one very important cooking ingredient:

Green chilles, Red chillies, and Purandara Dasa: http://tinyurl.com/cyfyeh

-Ramakriya

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 25 Feb 2009, 08:51

Ramakriya,
Very interesting! 'Chili inda banda chilli' perhaps? The hot chilli come from South America, I have heard.The explorers introduced them to us and until then, black pepper was the spice. Just as potato replaced the wild variety of the tuber and tomatoes came later.
And PD makes our mouths (eyes too?) water as he would with pAyasa in his songs...

As you know, took me a while to read the kannaDa script but it was worth it!

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 26 Feb 2009, 01:21

Thanks arasi avare

and BTW are you in Bengalooru these days?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 26 Feb 2009, 10:11

Yes, just for a few more days, and then I am heading back home...