Sanjay Subramaniam - Fort High school concert, Bangalore

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 16 Apr 2009, 09:20

Hi,

Looks like not many here are attending fort high school concerts.
Yesterday was Sanjay, I could not go
and was waiting to read the review by our forumites.
Even Sanjay is missed.... surprising

Title Modified ....

Please look below, the review by braindrain of Sanjay's concert.

braindrain · Post by **braindrain** » 16 Apr 2009, 09:51

Here you go..

Vocal : Sanjay Subrahmanyan

Violin : S Varadarajan

Mrudangam : Neyveli Venkatesh

Morsing: B.Rajasekhar

Songlist :

01 vanajAksha ninne kOri ( varNam) - rItigauLa - Veenai Kuppaiyer

02 bhavanuta - mOhanam - Thyagaraja ( S )

03 enthani nE - mukhAri - Thyagaraja ( A,N,S )

neraval & swara @ ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“kanulAra sEvinci kammani phalamula nosagiÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢

04 srIrAman ravikula - nArAyaNa gauLa - Dikshitar

05 endu dAginADO - thODi - Thyagaraja ( A,N,S,T)

neraval & swara @ ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“ alanADu kanakakashipu niNDAru ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“

06 Emayya rAma - kAmbOji - Bhadrachala Ramadas

07 gAnamUrtE - gAnamUrti - Thyagaraja ( started at mAnini maNi, after the speaches and garlands)

08 RTP - rAgEshrI - khanda jathi triputa

pallavi line ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“ gOvinda alamElmangai maNALA vA tiruvenkata nAthA ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“

tAnam and swaras in main ragam. No ragamalika swaram. But, he sang swaras in 3 ( or was it 4) speed.

09 lALisidaLu - dEsh & jAunpuri - Purandara Dasa

10 tumbam nErkayil - dEsh - Bharatidasan

11 rAmanai bhajitAl - mAND - Papanasam Sivan

12 mangaLam - saurAshtram - Thyagaraja

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 16 Apr 2009, 09:57

rAgEshri RTP!
Impressions, braindrain?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Apr 2009, 10:08

Thank you, Braindrain.
Emayya rAmA (with Nedunuri written all over it) would have been something to hear. Haven't heard a rAgESri RTP before. gOVindA comes in all svarUpams, I guess

melakartha · Post by **melakartha** » 16 Apr 2009, 10:12

The RTP was indeed very delightful. The Tanam evoked huge applause from the crowds. Sanjay sang it beautifully in hindustani style. Very beautiful raga it indeed is. Even his Todi alapana and neraval were simply out of the world. Initially he seemed to have voice problems but warmed up v well.

I agree with the starter of the thread that sadly concerts in Bangalore, that too in the midst of such a musical extravaganza here do not get covered. Though who is to blame for it? We rasikas only !

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Apr 2009, 10:32

rajgalan,
Perhaps you should change the title to Sanjay at Fort High School now that 'poor coverage' is redressed with the report of a rich rAgESri. Who knows? More reviews might come in about this series.

melakartha · Post by **melakartha** » 16 Apr 2009, 10:43

Yes Arasi ..that is right, may be more of us who attend (almost) daily should take the trouble of detailing the concerts on our site. I was eager to read abt the Malladi brothers on same venue 2 days back which due to ill health i could not attend.

However even as we talk about fort concerts not receiving due coverage, our member Mr Vikram Sampath again writes about the Fort high school and Ramanavami music series in Bangalore in the Bangalore Mirror today.
http://bangaloremirror.com/index.aspx?p ... &sectxslt=

Made interesting reading, especially when i have also heard stories of how Narayanaswamy Rao and Phiteel Chowdaiya were a great team to promote this. In fact Chowdaiya apparently would entice senior musicians in Chennai and elsehwre to come to the Mandali concerts and in return promise to accompany them anywhere else ! Quite a rich tradition it surely is !

karthikbala · Post by **karthikbala** » 16 Apr 2009, 11:11

I enjoyed the Mukhari and Todi (especially as I have only encountered Endudaginado in a Musiri recording and in a concert of Smt. Suguna Varadacari). Sanjay's voice was cooperative. Unfortunately I had to leave before the RTP. Could someone enlighten me on what Ragesri is like? Never heard it before.

braindrain · Post by **braindrain** » 16 Apr 2009, 11:40

Impressions...

a) Beautiful mukhari, especially the neraval.

b) Elaborate rendering of thodi, but occasionally, strayed ( lost a bit of clarity) . Varadarajan's turn was very good. I'm hearing this for the first time in a concert. Very slow paced rendering and I had an instant liking to this kriti. 7-8 min of neraval and shorter round of swara. Tani Avartanam was the usual fast paced patterns from Neyveli Venkatesh ( becoming a bit repetitive to me, as I see him do this in every concerts )

c) Kamboji krithi was very nice. He started gAnamUrte , but stopped after seeing the organiser, getting ready with his speeches. Continued from the anupallavi after the long intermission ( of speeches and garlands).

d) Announed the ragam of the pallavi, before he started. 8 mins of alapana was brillinant and so was the violin. What was more appealing was the tAnam, as some one mentioned. There was no ragamalika swarams or the usual trikalam ( anuloma-pratiloma??) , but he sang swaras in 3 speed, and a hindustani style swaras ( akAra?) in a higher speed. I thought, he did this very well. May be others can add here.

e) The post pallavi kritis came in as a medley, as he moved from one kriti to the other without any break. Desh was exceptionally good.

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 16 Apr 2009, 13:32

RTP - rAgEshrI - khanda jathi triputa

pallavi line ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“ gOvinda alamElmangai maNALA vA tiruvenkata nAthA ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“

tAnam and swaras in main ragam. No ragamalika swaram. But, he sang swaras in 3 ( or was it 4) speed

Can we get some details of this raga ??

is it "rAgEshrI" or "bhAgEshri"

shriranjani · Post by **shriranjani** » 16 Apr 2009, 14:00

For Manjunath-I wasn't present at the kucheri,but from the discussions ,it appears to be Rageshri -S G m D n S S n D m G R S-very appealing raga-There is a veryfamous Tillana of Lalgudi sung very often by Bonbay Jayashri & Sudha Raghunathan.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 16 Apr 2009, 14:48

arasi wrote:rajgalan,
Perhaps you should change the title to Sanjay at Fort High School now that 'poor coverage' is redressed with the report of a rich rAgESri. Who knows? More reviews might come in about this series.

Yes....done.

Somehow the venue seems unfriendly. Very inconvenint, Olai pandhal setup. Seats far away from artist. High entry fee.
Intermittent power failures during Sanjay (or TMK) when I attended. Due to election, this year power must be stable. And poor mic system. VIP presence and too long speeches. A concert series with such great tradition and history
hasnot improved with technology.

perarulalan · Post by **perarulalan** » 16 Apr 2009, 16:26

Mukhari was rendered very nicely and so was Todi. We normally find artists to use fast paced songs in a further faster pace as a filler between main and RTP, Sanjay sang a beautiful Kambodhi (as arasi has put, this kriti has Nedunurigaru's name etched everywhere!). Because of those long speeches, I thought Sanjay might skip RTP. But he chose a nice ragam and rendered it very nicely. Just when he started Desh, I had to leave.
It would be nice if the organizers take some time right in the beginning to give their speeches and honor the artistes and sponsors or do that it the end. As a first step, they can have all those to be honored, on the stage, 5 mins before they start their speeches. Infact yesterday, the one who introduced personalities kept calling one name after the other and each of them take some time to go up on the stage. These small things IMO can be avoided!

karthikbala · Post by **karthikbala** » 16 Apr 2009, 17:50

rajaglan wrote: Somehow the venue seems unfriendly. Very inconvenint, Olai pandhal setup. Seats far away from artist. High entry fee.

The speakers sounded very blurred in the beginning but improved soon (or maybe my auditory system was compensating?). I dont know about the other concerts, but yesterday for rs.100 they seated me reasonably close.

Sathej · Post by **Sathej** » 16 Apr 2009, 18:03

Rageshree season at the forum, I suppose

Here's a recent thread with Rageshree discussed a bit..

http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... -2009.html

Sathej

sadvimarsha · Post by **sadvimarsha** » 16 Apr 2009, 20:09

rAgEshri RTP!
Why should anyone take a hindusthani raga for an RTP. We have such astounding ragas in Carnatic music which can be taken for RTP. I heard DKP amma once giving the same impression about such ragas.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Apr 2009, 20:24

Once there were steam engines. A great innovation of the industrial age. They still appeal to us. But diesel trains and electric trains signal progress, and we haven't rejected them. I cast a glance of admiration on our old typewriter when I happen to see it in the attic, but what would I do without my computer!

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 16 Apr 2009, 21:35

arasi, what a blast!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 Apr 2009, 22:29

Kedharam,
You are refering to the steam engine start?

RTPs in rAgAs other than traditional ones might not be a no-no to DKP, if you asked her today. Just a guess. Such a traditionalist, she sang songs in several exotic rAgAs too--many of MD's--a composer known for his knowledge and love for rAgAs outside the mainstay of CM. Her eppaDippADinarO and SAnti nilava vENDum and ADuvOME paLLu pADuvOmE delights CM traditionalists as much as it does others...

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 16 Apr 2009, 23:56

Yes, I mean the harmonious union between a sentimental facet that is a steam engine and an architectural facet that is an electric train and the resultant blast! Accepting ragas on their own terms as long it has aesthetic coherence and musical sense.
Indeed, the sentimental value of antiquity comes above all. Yet, creative experimentation has its own elusive charm.
My ideal meal would be veththa kozhambu for lunch (Emayya rAma - kAmbOji) and malAi kOftA ( rAgEshrI - RTP) for dinner. I look for the organic inter dependence between these two and fall for the music that strikes the aesthetic mean cerebrally and emotionally. With my limited knowledge, these artistic endeavours have been cyclical rather than linear in trajectory.

newyorker · Post by **newyorker** » 17 Apr 2009, 01:09

rAgEshri RTP!
Why should anyone take a hindusthani raga for an RTP. We have such astounding ragas in Carnatic music which can be taken for RTP. I heard DKP amma once giving the same impression about such ragas.

Yes, shame on Sanjay for taking up a blasphemous raga like Rageshri for an RTP! Hindustani ragas suck and should never be sung on the Carnatic scene. Carnatic music is clearly the best art form in the world and Thodi is the only raga that must be sung as an RTP.

You can sing Nattaikurinji or Ravichandrika (never in an RTP of course, that is Thodi's sole prerogative), but not Rageshri in a Carnatic concert. Because we, as the carnatic cognoscenti, either don't recognize or don't want to recognize Hindustani equivalents. Only 'astounding' carnatic ragas like thodi, which don't have Hindustani equivalents are acceptable.

Innovation and creativity are for suckers!

*Sound of gavel striking*

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 17 Apr 2009, 01:30

To Sanjay's credit, he generally presents these Hindusthani ragas in a Carnatic manner (as far as it's possible), I think. His paTdIp and jOnpuri didn't simply have a Hindusthani feel, and there were definitely Carnatic layers to their presentation.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Apr 2009, 05:13

Bilahari,
Come on

vattak kuzhambu flavor in kOftA? Or should it be equated to paruppu uruNDai kuzhambu? Just admit that you are a sucker to innovation while you love the traditional in CM. I plead guilty too.
After all, the RasikAs concert which took place a few days ago and was appreciated a lot--was an HM concert!

Newyorker,
I don't hear the gavel sound

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Apr 2009, 05:15

kedharam,
Yes, we are entitled to enjoy the CM cuisine in all its nuances, and for that matter, HM too!
And I am glad you are a man who likes music which strikes the aesthetic mean--

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 17 Apr 2009, 08:36

Oh no, you've outed me, Arasi!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 17 Apr 2009, 14:32

newyorker wrote:
rAgEshri RTP!
Why should anyone take a hindusthani raga for an RTP. We have such astounding ragas in Carnatic music which can be taken for RTP. I heard DKP amma once giving the same impression about such ragas.
Yes, shame on Sanjay for taking up a blasphemous raga like Rageshri for an RTP! Hindustani ragas suck and should never be sung on the Carnatic scene. Carnatic music is clearly the best art form in the world and Thodi is the only raga that must be sung as an RTP.

You can sing Nattaikurinji or Ravichandrika (never in an RTP of course, that is Thodi's sole prerogative), but not Rageshri in a Carnatic concert. Because we, as the carnatic cognoscenti, either don't recognize or don't want to recognize Hindustani equivalents. Only 'astounding' carnatic ragas like thodi, which don't have Hindustani equivalents are acceptable.

Innovation and creativity are for suckers!

*Sound of gavel striking*

I have heard RTP in raga keeravani by so many people MMI, MSS, SSI (recordings) and recently Sanjay. It touches
you soulfully. Your idea looks like a major constraint. Actually not even a constraint, there seem to be literally no choice....
For me elaborate treatment(RTP) of any raga (known or unknown to me) is fine. In one case you enjoy and the other you learn. But I maynot like a HM treatment, still need to listen to what Sanjay sang. But I like HM raga treated carnatically.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 17 Apr 2009, 15:09

rajaglan wrote:[But I like HM raga treated carnatically.

That was nicely put

newyorker · Post by **newyorker** » 17 Apr 2009, 23:03

I have heard RTP in raga keeravani by so many people MMI, MSS, SSI (recordings) and recently Sanjay. It touches
you soulfully. Your idea looks like a major constraint. Actually not even a constraint, there seem to be literally no choice....
For me elaborate treatment(RTP) of any raga (known or unknown to me) is fine. In one case you enjoy and the other you learn. But I maynot like a HM treatment, still need to listen to what Sanjay sang. But I like HM raga treated carnatically.

My post was entirely in satire ... The whole idea of singing RTPs in only Thodi is almost as ludicrous as sadvimarsha's original post. Maybe next time, I should consider <sarcasm/> tags!

Honestly, did anyone take me seriously?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 18 Apr 2009, 00:42

newyorker, I was curious how many people are going to jump all over you

( it was quite clear it was a satire, well done )

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 18 Apr 2009, 01:01

newyorker · Post by **newyorker** » 18 Apr 2009, 02:06

Kedharam, just for the record, my post was not intended to be 'potent' or 'elicit' any particular response. It was just a (bad?) attempt at humor.

In the very first line, in one grand sweep, I deride the entire Hindustani genre, proclaim Carnatic music as the greatest art form ever, and then proceed to deem thodi as the only Carnatic raga deserving of elaboration! To misread my post, one would have to not possess a sense of humor, or perhaps (heaven forbid) even secretly believe in some of my outrageous claims! The 'gavel' was only a metaphor representing how 'judgemental' and myopic my entire post was.

Whether or not you cared for my sarcasm, I am sure you will agree that Rageshri/Ravichandrika is a very beautiful raga and that it's Hindustani origin (or should I say, popularity?) should hardly be a source of criticism from Carnatic rasikas.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Apr 2009, 02:19

Hey! A bad attempt at humor from a 'New yorker'? Heaven forbid! I thoroughly enjoyed your post--the opening line should have given it away, but as VK says, I expected 'reactions' too. Anyway, my 'I don't hear the gavel sound!' should have sounded my appreciation for your humorous take.
By the way, the (New Yorker published) cartoonist-contestant is doing better than Ken Jenkins this week!

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 18 Apr 2009, 02:23

newyorker, i am sorry, i was just just kidding.i will delete my post.

newyorker · Post by **newyorker** » 18 Apr 2009, 02:44

Kedharam, no offense taken whatsoever! You didn't have to delete your post.

Arasi, glad you enjoyed my post. However, I didn't quite grasp your last comment. Is it a correlation between this week's cartoon contest and a reference to a particular episode of Scrubs?

To everyone else, I hope I haven't distracted your attention from what seems to have been another superb concert from Sanjay!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Apr 2009, 04:28

Newyorker,
Jenkins, the big time champion. The show, Jeopardy. This new 'I forget his name' winner is the one I was talking about. In the past few days, he has been winning big bucks.

newyorker · Post by **newyorker** » 18 Apr 2009, 05:17

Newyorker,
Jenkins, the big time champion. The show, Jeopardy. This new 'I forget his name' winner is the one I was talking about. In the past few days, he has been winning big bucks.

That would be Kevin Joyce. I've been following his exploits too ... is there anything he doesn't know? (except maybe carnatic music?!)

(Previously, when you mentioned Ken Jenkins, I thought you were referring to the eccentric but hilarious Dr. Kelso on Scrubs.)

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 18 Apr 2009, 06:04

Kevin Joyce is quite the gambler too! I suspect his reign won't be for long.

sadvimarsha · Post by **sadvimarsha** » 18 Apr 2009, 17:51

Blast? What do you mean by Blast?
Arasi: A steam engine and Carnatic Music !!! what a comparison. And a computor and Hindusthani Music ! Vah Vah.
Kedharam: My ideal meal would be veththa kozhambu for lunch (Emayya rAma - kAmbOji) and malAi kOftA ( rAgEshrI - RTP) for dinner. This is true. No one would mix Veththa KozhMBU with Biriyani or Malaikofta for the same meal. Is it not.
Singing an item in the end as a thukada in an unfamiliar raga or with a hindusthani feel is welcome in a concert. But RTP is the peak of Manodharma Sangitha and one should not meddle this aspect of Carnatic Music with a H M raga. This is what I feel. In that case we can even sing a western piece in a concert???
[But I like HM raga treated carnatically. What is this. Then why should you sing this at all. Would you accept mohana raga being treated in a hindusthani fashion? I would not.
Any way, I also see some members going out of the subject in their discussions.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Apr 2009, 20:44

sadvimarsha,
Let me explain. As I said before, the steam engine and blast do go with each other. Yet, HM and computers don't. Let them all stay together in the attic, I don't mind. We are not speaking in literal terms here. Substitute all the above words for progress. RasikAs do have different tastes in music. We also recognize that the arts evolve and find new venues in any culture. It is the quality in them that we should be particular about, if we call ourselves rasikAs--not rejecting them wholesale.
you are right. Now, back to the topic--Fort High School series of concerts...

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 18 Apr 2009, 20:56

newyorker wrote:Kedharam, just for the record, my post was not intended to be 'potent' or 'elicit' any particular response. It was just a (bad?) attempt at humor.

In the very first line, in one grand sweep, I deride the entire Hindustani genre, proclaim Carnatic music as the greatest art form ever, and then proceed to deem thodi as the only Carnatic raga deserving of elaboration! To misread my post, one would have to not possess a sense of humor, or perhaps (heaven forbid) even secretly believe in some of my outrageous claims! The 'gavel' was only a metaphor representing how 'judgemental' and myopic my entire post was.

Whether or not you cared for my sarcasm, I am sure you will agree that Rageshri/Ravichandrika is a very beautiful raga and that it's Hindustani origin (or should I say, popularity?) should hardly be a source of criticism from Carnatic rasikas.

I think satire is something the enduser have to get used to to enjoy. Example is Tulaq magazine.
Going by the controversies in top singers related threads nowadays, satire also can be taken seriously. And HM
topic is always there to erupt as a controversy. Yes... 'Thodi only' sounded like a satire.
Next time, I willnot miss your joke.

kedharam · Post by **kedharam** » 18 Apr 2009, 22:52

sadvimarsha,

Blessed with a huge appetite, I donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t have to wait for the real dinner bell to dive ino KOftA. All I do is sit and shake my system well and as soon the veththa kozhambu settles down I am ready for my UstAdi fare. To each his/her own!

endaroo · Post by **endaroo** » 19 Apr 2009, 12:08

Actually old KM vidwans used HM rages sindhubhairavi, thilang, bhagesri, rajesri like for mislaneous items. I agree with Sadvimarsha opinion, for RTP it is better to select ragas like Thodi, Bhairavi, etc., The thing is in HM concerts they strictly follow their style and select their ragas and rendition will be different and they don't sing KM style. We should respect the tradition.
The respected members please understand and continue with your opinions

HeyNarayana · Post by **HeyNarayana** » 19 Apr 2009, 12:49

This is interesting somebody comparing DKP amma with steam engine. So now that we are into diesel, we should junk yard the steam engine? Amazing to see one has guts or in other words 'immaturity' to use such comparisons. Please have respect to a legend like Smt. DKP, how many artists of today must have evolved using her style as foundation. I was fortunate to visit her recently and it was a touchy moment seeing this great lady. She is a God's gift to CM. Other interesting thing, Sanjay singing RTP in hindustanu ragam? I love Sanjay music and his style but he doesn't have range. Wish he stays within middle octave. At lower octave nothing but air comes out and struggles at higher octave. I know I may get 'blasted' with my comments.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:02

HeyNarayana, this thread is already awash with misunderstandings and you are adding to it by taking offense about some tangential DKP reference.

Please read the posts again and you will understand no one is saying anything bad about DKP, not even indirectly by inference. You are reading way too much into it. And even if you still feel the need to get offended, please let it go since this topic is not about DKP.

endaroo · Post by **endaroo** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:32

My dear Vasanthakokilam,
The topic is going only about RTP in HM ragas. Sadvimarsha and HeyNarayana are expressing the DKPs tradition and she don't select HM ragas for RTP, that's all. Please don't misunderstand and give answers politely. Anyway I like healthy discussions.

endaroo · Post by **endaroo** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:54

Day by day, our classical music values are going somewhere i.e., fushion music etc. Trend is changed. Only some vidwans are available to keep tradition values. So we all should pray god to protect and project our traditional classical music by upcoming artists available.

The suggestions & criticism particularly traditionl Music is required now. I request all members to concentrate with this and enjoy concerts.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 19 Apr 2009, 14:49

One day Talat's very famous song 'ai meri dil kahan' set beautifully in raag bhairavi (hindustani) by Shankar Jaikishen in filmDAAG will be taken upas pallavi aftr elaborating bhairavi and tanam in it
sarigama(AAI MERI )padanisa(dil kahan). juat an injection of humour in this topic which is becoming hot, hotter, hottest . I think somebody will post swarams for thefull song gobilalitha

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 19 Apr 2009, 16:35

shriranjani wrote:For Manjunath-I wasn't present at the kucheri,but from the discussions ,it appears to be Rageshri -S G m D n S S n D m G R S-very appealing raga-There is a veryfamous Tillana of Lalgudi sung very often by Bonbay Jayashri & Sudha Raghunathan.

Thanks for this info. So kind of You.

Svaapana · Post by **Svaapana** » 19 Apr 2009, 17:48

Prejudices all over!! A raga is a raga whether it is in HM or KM. Flute mali exemplified it so well and so many times. Who can forget his behag. bagesri or Darbarikanada rtps!

endaroo · Post by **endaroo** » 19 Apr 2009, 20:42

One day Talat's very famous song 'ai meri dil kahan' set beautifully in raag bhairavi (hindustani) by Shankar Jaikishen in filmDAAG will be taken upas pallavi aftr elaborating bhairavi and tanam in it
sarigama(AAI MERI )padanisa(dil kahan). juat an injection of humour in this topic which is becoming hot, hotter, hottest . I think somebody will post swarams for thefull song gobilalitha

Last edited by gobilalitha (Today 15:52)
Gobilalitha,
What do you mean with this please.