Sarvalaghu and KaNakku issues.

Tālam & Layam related topics
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cmlover
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#1

Post by cmlover » 27 May 2009, 21:00

I am requesting laya-knowlegeable folks to explain these terms in a way that all of us can understand. Math is Ok with me! But be sure to explain technical terms used.
Thanks!
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cmlover
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#2

Post by cmlover » 27 May 2009, 21:03

arunk wrote: cml - A forewarning; I am not 100% sure about what all exactly constitutes sarvalaghu (i.e. more importantly what is not) so cannot give a reliable answer.

I think in general with sarvalaghu, the stress points are usually always "in line" with the tala beat and thus perhaps less syncopation (say take a pattern that explicitly stress every 3/4th of a beat rather than 2/4 (i.e. 1/2) or exactly on the beat may not be part of it). The upside (to some) is that it is always catchy and rhythmic that it is perhaps easy and natural to enjoy it - besides mrdangam, SSI's kalpanaswaras are very attractive because of this. The downside (to some) is that it supposedly isnt intellectually challenging enough.

Arun
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ragam-talam
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#3

Post by ragam-talam » 30 May 2009, 12:54

cml, thanks for raising this question! Hope we get some good responses from the laya experts.

audio/video clips that clearly show the distinction would be good too.
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ajsriram
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#4

Post by ajsriram » 03 Jun 2009, 13:25

Hi all,

First lets understand that Sarva Laghu doesnt stop with chatusram alone. I feel (IMHO) many people think that chatusram (beats of 4) is sarva laghu.

To explain to a lay man, "sarva - Laghu". It is Easy flow of patterns. The pattern can be of any Nadai ( chatusram - Sakeernam). Never it has been said a "sarva laghu" should be "Constant Flow" of Easy patterns. It is just Flow of pattern which falls between two Aksharams. The Akshara Kaalam can be of any nadai.

Let me first TRY to explain the basic part (chatusram) with a simple audio then we can move on further.

From 0:11 to 0:29, It is free flow of basic (4 beat) rhythm. Once can hear the clap sound in the background. After that it is improvised and the tempo of playing is increased. Instead of playing 4, 8 is played within four mathrais.

We will see more of Sarvalaghu patterns in other nadais also in my forth coming posts.
The downside (to some) is that it supposedly isnt intellectually challenging enough.
will see more of sarva laghu patterns, how it is challenging interms of "PLAYING" and easily understood by a common man and still intellectual enough for laya buffs.

Have a look at this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6emYJ5mZRCg

The video is Re-mixed with the audio. The thani-avarthanam part is from "DKJ-KRM" mylapore fine arts concert (1983). Dont get disturbed if you dont like the video part. ;)
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cmlover
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#5

Post by cmlover » 03 Jun 2009, 21:18

Thanks!
Where is the audio?
We have all been brainwashed into thinking that sarvalaghu is only with chatusram. Do please enlighten us with patterns in other nadais.
Is it true that sarvalaghu playing/singing though pleasing is mindless?
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ajsriram
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#6

Post by ajsriram » 04 Jun 2009, 02:11

cmlover wrote:Thanks!
Where is the audio?
The whole concert is available @ http://sangeethapriya.org/Downloads/dkj/dkjkrm.html
cmlover wrote:Thanks!
Is it true that sarvalaghu playing/singing though pleasing is mindless?
Not at all, I am just preparing the MP3 for the reference, where sarvalaghu does make a difference and still its thrilling.

Regards
Sriram J. Iyer
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srikant1987
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#7

Post by srikant1987 » 04 Jun 2009, 08:06

If we return to a stress "on" the kriya every "few" kriyas (at most 4 maybe), it is sarvalaghu, maybe. It obviously need not be only for the chaturashra naDai!
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msakella
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#8

Post by msakella » 04 Jun 2009, 08:52

Hi all, In Sanskrit Laghu is the term for a short syllable and Guru is for a long syllable. Sarva-laghu means all short-syllables only irrespective of any Jaati. But there are two varieties of Sarva-laghu and they are 1. application in respect of Mridanga-jati and 2. application in respect of Svaras. In respect of Mridanga-jatis there should be only single-units like ‘ta-ki-ta’ for the Jaati of 3-units, ‘ki-ta-ta-ka’ for the Jaati of 4-units, ‘ta-ka-ta-ki-ta’ or ‘ta-dhi-gi-na-ta’ for the Jaati of 5-units etc., etc., strictly avoiding any longer syllable and in respect of Svaras notes carrying single-units only should be used strictly avoiding any longer notes and Janta-svaras like ss, rrr, gggg etc. amsharma
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cmlover
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#9

Post by cmlover » 04 Jun 2009, 21:03

msakella wrote:....strictly avoiding any longer syllable and in respect of Svaras notes carrying single-units only should be used strictly avoiding any longer notes and Janta-svaras like ss, rrr, gggg etc. amsharma
That is puzzling!
In sarvalaghu svara singing there is obviously jantasvara prayOga?
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msakella
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#10

Post by msakella » 05 Jun 2009, 06:54

Dear brother-member, cmlover, It is not at all puzzling. We are fortunate enough to have his/her own Sampradaya i.e., tradition per each head like in respect of our Pallavi-singing or Ragamalika-singing or Eduppu-change in Svarakalpana or Matra definition etc., etc., to avoid any complications which spill out our beans. In the same manner anybody can here after include janta-svaras also in Sarva-laghu or even longer-notes according to his will and pleasure. It becomes his ‘Sampradaya’. That’s all. amsharma
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babaji
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#11

Post by babaji » 19 Jul 2009, 00:08

Is omitting parts of sarva laghu swara singing considered long syllables or short

for example ppmpdpmp]mdppdmpd sung as [p..m..m.][m..p..p.] or ta..ki..ta. ta..ja..nu. that is taking the same sarva laghu swaras from odd places and omitting certain parts of the full pattern.
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mridangamkid
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#12

Post by mridangamkid » 20 Jul 2009, 03:45

From what I have gathered, it seems as though sarva-laghu (like ajs has said) is somewhat simple (mathematical wise) pattern repeated in whatever nadai it is, meaning chathusra it would be a repetition of 4, thisra... 3... and so on.

It is not mindless at all nor boring to play this during a kutcheri, in fact some may say it is very difficult to play this properly. The reason why I say properly is because timing, and placement is key. What exactly made PMI or PSP above the average mridangist? If you hear, they don't play the most complicated farans, nor do they play unbelievable mathematically challenging patterns, but rather, they would could play a simple "na dhim dhim dhim na dhim dhim dhim", and enhance the singer and the song tremendously. The challenging part however, is where to play these patterns, which patterns to play, and which notes to emphasize. Granted, one wouldn't want to play a whole song, or even a whole pallavi just playing sarva - laghu patterns, but it certainly isn't frowned upon is what I think.

What question I have however (and sjs if you could answer this please do), is if one plays a, let's say for example thisra sarva-lagu pattern (such as just na dhim dhim), but plays this in chathusra nadai, is it still considered sarva-laghu?
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VK RAMAN
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#13

Post by VK RAMAN » 20 Jul 2009, 04:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzNTlFvF ... re=related - mridangamkid question in this rendition by Pt.Jasraj
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mridangamkid
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#14

Post by mridangamkid » 20 Jul 2009, 07:34

Thank you for the link sir, however my question is not whether or not it is possible to play this, but rather if the terminology stayed the same... unless I am missing something.
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pgaiyar
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#15

Post by pgaiyar » 21 Jul 2009, 10:28

To : Mr. VK Raman

Dear Sir:

Can I have your e-mail address?. I am trying to request a few things outside this forum.

Regards

P.G. Aiyar
[email protected]
21-July-09
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sankirnam
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#16

Post by sankirnam » 21 Jul 2009, 19:26

MK, to answer your question, that could be sarvalaghu for rupaka thalam, since it is a sequence of 3's.
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VK RAMAN
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#17

Post by VK RAMAN » 21 Jul 2009, 20:19

pgaiyer: Please check your mail sent through this forum
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