Bharat Sangeet Utsav 2009: Concerts to be seen at

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 25 Nov 2009, 11:01

sureshvv wrote:Appears that harimau came a little late to the proceedings on the final day. As part of the valedictory function, special guest Paul Dinakaran , a christian priest in Chennai exhorted carnatic musicians to take up more socially relevant lyrics so the music could reach the masses. He then proceeded to give an example by singing the song "Que Sera Sera" in vilamba kaalam as an example of how carnatic music could become more popular and lauded Aruna Sairam as the musician who could make this happen. It was all very surreal

Quite hilarious!

I don't have a whole lot against religious leaders appealing for "Whirled Peas", though I don't think it is achieved by uttering platitudes at musical events. But I do have something against the WP event organized by Carnatica 2-3 years back at which the US Consul General was chief guest. A representative of the Bush regime need not be invited to pontificate to the rest of us about WP! Unless he is courageous enough to decry the actions of his government which did a lot to prevent peace -- which he was not.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 25 Nov 2009, 11:35

rajaglan wrote: I agree with Rajesh... what is the necessity of Paul to be invited for this utsav.

Just to give a little background, Paul Dinakaran is a highly charismatic preacher, or should I say a preacher with a lot of charisma. He is a key figure that helps organize Chennai Sangamam, the new popular street festival in January conceived and promoted by the current administration in Tamilnadu. Chennai Sangaman has given carnatic music some due recognition and not dismissed it as an art form of the elitist minority (Not sure if it is because or in spite of Paul, though

)
So Carnatica may have been justified in inviting him. And in his speech he did acknowledge that Carnatic Music is the single greatest art form that is deeply intertwined with spirituality.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 25 Nov 2009, 11:38

Just to give a little background, Paul Dinakaran is a highly charismatic preacher, or should I say a preacher with a lot of charisma. He is a key figure that helps organize Chennai Sangamam,

Sureshvv,
Is that paul dinakaran or jasper rAj

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 25 Nov 2009, 11:38

sureshvv wrote:And in his speech he did acknowledge that Carnatic Music is the single greatest art form that is deeply intertwined with spirituality.

vasishTha vAyAle....

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 25 Nov 2009, 12:48

It is Fr. Casper Raj who founded tamil maiyam and part of sangamam organizing committee. He spoke very well at the world peace event I referred to.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 25 Nov 2009, 16:50

sureshvv wrote:
rajaglan wrote: I agree with Rajesh... what is the necessity of Paul to be invited for this utsav.
Just to give a little background, Paul Dinakaran is a highly charismatic preacher, or should I say a preacher with a lot of charisma. He is a key figure that helps organize Chennai Sangamam, the new popular street festival in January conceived and promoted by the current administration in Tamilnadu. Chennai Sangaman has given carnatic music some due recognition and not dismissed it as an art form of the elitist minority (Not sure if it is because or in spite of Paul, though )
So Carnatica may have been justified in inviting him. And in his speech he did acknowledge that Carnatic Music is the single greatest art form that is deeply intertwined with spirituality.

Ok, great. They had some logic in inviting him. Thanks for the clarification.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 25 Nov 2009, 18:06

rajaglan wrote:Ok, great. They had some logic in inviting him. Thanks for the clarification.

For sure, what does it matter...but not for the reasons cited

. Dhinakaran and Casper Raj are two entirely different people and the former had nothing to do with Chennai samgamam...Please read one post up.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Nov 2009, 18:26

So harimau's concerns are justified!
Attempts are being made to 'hijack' CM and AS can be a collaborator!
We can await the arrival of a Christian Thyagaraja! A muslim Muthuswamy Dikshitar! A sarva samaya samarasa Shyama Sastri!
Twenty first century is going to be a banner year for CM !
(...or its demise

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 25 Nov 2009, 20:01

CMLover, the Devil needs no advocate....you are both of them intertwined

!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Nov 2009, 20:41

Are you equating me with Uday

I am honoured!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 25 Nov 2009, 21:11

HM gave up making a fuss about religion long ago.

doyoucare · Post by **doyoucare** » 25 Nov 2009, 21:34

A scalar interpretation of MD's purvikalyani krithi on the piano is FAR more acceptable to my ears than the horrible vocal renditions of the same krithi by the yester year giants (and some of the present day vidwans)

It is all a matter of perspective!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Nov 2009, 21:40

I guess there is no religion in WM either!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 25 Nov 2009, 22:19

Oh, lots! --- it is just that the religion of the performer isn't considered important.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Nov 2009, 22:30

Any Hindu themes in WM?

karthikbala · Post by **karthikbala** » 25 Nov 2009, 23:35

Philip Glass' "Satyagraha" based on the life of Gandhi, draws from the Gita.

Delibes' LakmÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â©, is a French opera set in India. LakmÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â© is a Brahmin girl ("OÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¹ va la jeune Hindoue" is a popular aria) who falls in love with a British officer. LakmÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â©'s duet with her companion Mallika, "Viens, Mallika, les lianes en fleurs" (a.k.a. the Flower Duet) is familiar to many as the British Airways theme. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4MmatVblDk

An Indian theme rather than "Hindu theme" really... in the vein of Le roi de Lahore (Massenet), Les pÃƒÆ’Ã‚Âªcheurs de perles (Bizet). Meyerbeer's L'Africaine despite its misleading title, actually features a Hindu heroine who falls in love with Vasco da Gama!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 25 Nov 2009, 23:37

I am sure, most people must have listened to this MMI Radio concert , the first song being MD's Purvi kalyani Meenakshi..
Anyway for those who have not heard this, pls try to listen to it. This is one of the best rendition of this krithi by a stalwart.
I felt It is NOT rendered in his usuaul style, which is very unusual. May be people who have followed his concerts can tell more.
This has 8 minutes (Alapana), 5 minutes Violin return, and 4 minutes in to the pallavi & krithi, and 6 minutes of neraval and 5 minutes
of swaram and 2 minutes of last saranam and pallavi.

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 25 Nov 2009, 23:38

Yes. A brilliant young pianist is now improvising on songs about Hindu deities, most notably Parvathi in the avatar of the ravishing daughter of a King of Madura known as Malayadwaja

(see post #1)

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 Nov 2009, 00:25

doyoucare wrote:A scalar interpretation of MD's purvikalyani krithi on the piano is FAR more acceptable to my ears than the horrible vocal renditions of the same krithi by the yester year giants (and some of the present day vidwans) It is all a matter of perspective!

YOUR perspective is interesting tho' with the scant data you have provided it appears to be QUITE SHALLOW. PL provide more details etc so I can learn your "perspective" better & would love to. VKV

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Nov 2009, 00:39

Of course Indian themes are handled in WM. The most famous was 'Kismet' in the 19th century an opera which rocked Europe then. There was the production of 'Shakuntala' by the Russian theatres and Mahabharat by the French combines (not a musical). I wonder about strictly Hindu Religious WM theme!

doyoucare · Post by **doyoucare** » 26 Nov 2009, 07:28

Sri.VKV - I don't know why you need data for this - as I said this is just my perspective (or my subjective opinion, if you might). It is just about at the same level as the numerous "hearsay" stories / episodes / conversations / third party opinions I keep reading about on the forum

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 26 Nov 2009, 07:44

I don't think so. It is several orders more ignorant& worse THAN many useless postings. Of course everything is Subjective including this post.. PL educate yourself before making less than half baked opinions. VKV

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 26 Nov 2009, 22:52

harimau
Pl stop speculating about Ravikiran's financial transactions. Since it is too personal it can land us in trouble at the Forum even if you have 'hearsay' information!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 26 Nov 2009, 23:08

vkv43034 wrote:I don't think so. It is several orders more ignorant& worse THAN many useless postings. Of course everything is Subjective including this post.. PL educate yourself before making less than half baked opinions. VKV

I agree with you here.

The truth is both are good , the style being different (though I havenot listened to that concert). For me, when I listened to
too much of CM, then for a change a lighter version will sound good.

On a distantly related argument , When I listen to Sandeep N, Prasanna V, K. balamurai (all youngsters) , especially songs like
Manusunilpa, kaddanuvariki, koluvamara, kouluvai...in their recent records ( and I am sure many more albums and many artist) , one
can trace back the root to MMI rendition. I am sure they are impressed by stalwarts even if that person is not their guru.

Always_Evolving · Post by **Always_Evolving** » 26 Nov 2009, 23:43

harimau wrote:
PS. I have attributed no motives at all to any artists in my comments. I merely have raised objections to what they did. In fact, I sincerely believe thay know better than to do what they did.

PPS. I am surprised that everyone is responding to my comments on the inaugural concert only. I listed a total of 4 concerts as concerts to be seen at because those are the ones I chose to attend. Almost all of the concerts featured by Carnatica with rare exceptions were "must-be-seen-at" concerts.

Your PPS can be explained easily -- by the fact that the PS is baloney! You very much did attribute motive in the case of the RK-AS concert, saying Ravikiran "is trying to increase his audience" blah blah.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 27 Nov 2009, 00:39

This Harimau-Uday back and forth reminds of two old hags cackling at each other...
Enough already.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Nov 2009, 05:47

..full of sound and fury

(to quote Shakespeare..)

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 27 Nov 2009, 08:39

ragam-talam wrote:This Harimau-Uday back and forth reminds of two old hags cackling at each other...
Enough already.

In our effort to appear neutral, we clearly miss sight of facts

Uday is spinning circles around Harimau and for a change the "lion" is getting a taste of his own medicine. Let us sit back and savour the moment

balakk · Post by **balakk** » 27 Nov 2009, 08:55

Both these fine gentlemen need to find a table. Sit down. Grab a bottle of Scotland's finest. And have Manasi Prasad on to entertain. On the radio.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 27 Nov 2009, 09:10

balakk wrote:Both these fine gentlemen need to find a table. Sit down. Grab a bottle of Scotland's finest. And have Manasi Prasad on to entertain. On the radio.

Again, you have missed the wood for the trees. Shows that you have not been following this thread

The "lion" classifies such concerts as under the category " to see" and not under "to be seen" . Get the drift.......

And - ah ............ the pressures of appearing neutral once more ! The disinclination to take a stand ! Please go through all the topics of both these gentlemen and you will know who is fine and who is not

balakk · Post by **balakk** » 27 Nov 2009, 09:55

Ah, I believe OP is fine. The mockery and crankiness comes from sheer old age I think. Being 70+ entitles one to a license to rip on everything and everyone. If you put up with their diatribes, there may even be pearls of wisdom

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 27 Nov 2009, 10:17

balakk wrote:. If you put up with their diatribes, there may even be pearls of wisdom

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 27 Nov 2009, 11:25

cmlover wrote:..full of sound and fury
(to quote Shakespeare..)

..signifying nothing!
(just to complete that bard quote - in this instance, very apt

)

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 27 Nov 2009, 17:36

Uday_Shankar wrote:
You're all over the place Harimau, I just don't get you.

Let us take it one step at a time, shall we?

Unless one has US citizenship or a Green Card, one must obtain a visa to go to the US.

The US Consulate would want to know how you plan to pay for your expenses while in the US.

One cannot claim one is going to go to the US with the hope of finding some paying gigs (this is what I meant by "financially-speculative").

Thus any musician who goes to the US has a contract with some sponsor that takes care of him while he is in the US.

All this information can be gleaned easily from public sources. Or by talking to any musician who goes to the US or to any of the sponsors such as Kalalaya.

So, what private information have I divulged for you to be outraged ?

CMLover: Exactly what is the personal financial situation of any artist that has been discussed?

For the rest of you, I heartily recommend the book "A Confederacy of Dunces". It is funny, witty, and enormously entertaining.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 27 Nov 2009, 18:05

harimau wrote:for you to be outraged ?

Nice try

.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 27 Nov 2009, 20:44

balakk wrote:If you put up with their diatribes, there may even be pearls of wisdom

Should we all go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcDAg43oqqg?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 27 Nov 2009, 22:49

In general SPICMACAY does pay decent honoraria to the artists who perform in concert for them. If you have information -- and care to publicize it -- that Sri Ravikiran donated his time and did not accept reimbursement for even his expenses, I shall admit I erred.

is speculative and insinuating. We ought not to question how named artistes operate or reveal any of their business arrangements; how much they are paid/or not paid etc...

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 28 Nov 2009, 16:52

cmlover wrote:
In general SPICMACAY does pay decent honoraria to the artists who perform in concert for them. If you have information -- and care to publicize it -- that Sri Ravikiran donated his time and did not accept reimbursement for even his expenses, I shall admit I erred.
is speculative and insinuating. We ought not to question how named artistes operate or reveal any of their business arrangements; how much they are paid/or not paid etc...

What is speculative in the statement made. You seem to kindle a controversy unnecessarily.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 28 Nov 2009, 18:38

musicfan_4201 wrote:What is speculative in the statement made. You seem to kindle a controversy unnecessarily.

I think we need to give some space to the moderators . CML has already clarified that he is the last person to curtail free speech. His interventions in the above case are justified.