TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Review the latest concerts you have listened to.
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Ranganayaki
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#1 TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Ranganayaki » 10 Sep 2018, 11:45

There is a lot to share about this concert, and I will do so as soon as I can, and will also add the customary details to the list, which I'm leaving as it is for now as they are mostly familiar items.


1. Vrittam in Yamunakalyani followed by "Krishna Nee Begane Baaro"

2. Alapana in Kharaharapriya followed by "Janakipathe Jaya Karunyajaladhe"

3. Taanam in Shankarabharanam followed by "Kanivolum Kamaneeya Hridayam"

4. "Vinataasuta Vahana Sri Ramana," in Jayantasena

5. Ragamalika alapana in Varali and Mukhari

6. "Soundararaajam aashraye" in Brindavana Saranga followed by the Tani Avartanam

7. Javali "Marubari Talanenu Ra" in Khamas

8. Vrittam in Lathangi, Anandabhairavi, Kannada, Behag, followed by "Allahvai Naam Tozhudaal"

9. "Bruhi Mukundeti," in Kurinji

10. "Porambokku Paadal" Ragamalika in Anandabhairavi, Hameer Kalyani, Begada, Devagandhari, Salaga Bhairavi, Sindhubhairavi

11. Nottuswaram "Santatam Paahimaam Sangeeta Shyamale" in Shankarabharanam
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harimau
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#2 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by harimau » 10 Sep 2018, 12:32

Wow!

So, you actually went there!

I am sure we can soon expect a gushing review of the sort we used to get about TNS concerts from Saroja Ramanujam!
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Pratyaksham Bala
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#3 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Pratyaksham Bala » 10 Sep 2018, 12:49

Ranganayaki wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 11:45
8. Vrittam in Lathangi, Anandabhairavi, Kannada, Behag, followed by "Allahvai Naam Tozhudaal"
What was the 'related' viruttam ?
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Pratyaksham Bala
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#4 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Pratyaksham Bala » 10 Sep 2018, 13:18

Ranganayaki wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 11:45
10. "Porambokku Paadal" Ragamalika in Anandabhairavi, Hameer Kalyani, Begada, Devagandhari, Salaga Bhairavi, Sindhubhairavi
This song ?
https://lyricsing.com/chennai-poromboke ... yrics.html
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ganeshkant
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#5 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by ganeshkant » 10 Sep 2018, 21:54

Allahvai naam tozhudhal is a very famous devotional song sung by Nagoor E.M.Hanifa in karnataka devagandhari.Did TMK sing it in behag ?
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Ranganayaki
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#6 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Ranganayaki » 11 Sep 2018, 02:21

ganeshkant wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 21:54
Allahvai naam tozhudhal is a very famous devotional song sung by Nagoor E.M.Hanifa in karnataka devagandhari.Did TMK sing it in behag ?
Yes.
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Ranganayaki
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#7 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Ranganayaki » 11 Sep 2018, 02:56

Pratyaksham Bala wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 12:49
Ranganayaki wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 11:45
8. Vrittam in Lathangi, Anandabhairavi, Kannada, Behag, followed by "Allahvai Naam Tozhudaal"
What was the 'related' viruttam ?
There was a “related viruttam” at the very start too, you know! That might be just as interesting, for all you know!

I will be adding details soon.
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pattamaa
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#8 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by pattamaa » 11 Sep 2018, 06:40

If the musician started to sing gods on other faiths last year (or atleast before recent controversies) in places like olcat kuppam, he might have got some appreciations. What can it be called if someone does something for heck of doing it ?
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ganeshkant
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#9 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by ganeshkant » 11 Sep 2018, 07:48

This famous muslim devotional " iravainidam kaiEndhungaL" is sung by Udayaloor JKD & others in namasankeerthanam progs.no one objected.
But they carefully replace Allah with some other name.
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Sundara Rajan
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#10 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Sundara Rajan » 11 Sep 2018, 09:06

I do not understand the objection to carnatic songs on "AllAh". AllAh does not refer to any muslim god ! The Arabic word Allah simply means the "supreme being", God, KadvUL in Tamil, BhagavAn in Sanskrit.
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SrinathK
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#11 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by SrinathK » 11 Sep 2018, 10:12

Song list notwithstanding, how was the actual concert?
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Ranganayaki
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#12 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Ranganayaki » 11 Sep 2018, 10:42

SrinathK wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 10:12
Song list notwithstanding, how was the actual concert?
It was a good concert, the experience was excellent, the music shone through, without too much of the usual acrobatics, and I didn't miss it. Not heavy on neraval, korvais, kanakku, with the focus on ragas and songs and mood and emotion. Different from the showmanship we expect from everyone, but the music wasn't missing. It didn't feel terribly intellectual, sensitive rather, and there was saukhyam throughout.

I'm trying to gather my thoughts, and write a little at a time, so please bear with me till I share it.
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Ranganayaki
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#13 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Ranganayaki » 11 Sep 2018, 13:24

Oops - can’t edit my post: re-submitting with edits (sorry!!)


1. Vrittam in Yamunakalyani followed by "Krishna Nee Begane Baaro" - Vyaasaraaya - Misra Chapu

2. Alapana in Kharaharapriya followed by "Janakipathe Jaya Karunyajaladhe" - Papanasam Sivan - Adi Taalam

3. Taanam in Shankarabharanam followed by "Kanivolum Kamaneeya Hridayam" - Old Malayalam film song set to music by V. Dakshinamurthi, lyrics composed by Abhayadev, originally sung by P. Leela.

4. "Vinataasuta Vahana Sri Ramana," in Jayantasena - Thyagaraja - Adi Taala

5. Ragamalika alapana in Varali and Mukhari

6. "Soundararaajam aashraye" in Brindavana Saranga followed by the Tani Avartanam - Dikshitar - Rupakam

7. Javali "Marubari Talanenu Ra" in Khamas - Dharmspuri Subbaraya Iyer - Adi Taala (viewtopic.php?t=2836) -

8. Vrittam in Lathangi, Anandabhairavi, Kannada, Behag, followed by "Allahvai Naam Tozhudaal" - Naagoor Hanifa - Misra Chaapu https://mobile.twitter.com/tmkrishna/st ... 70?lang=en

9. "Bruhi Mukundeti" in Kurinji - Sadasiva Brahmendra - Adi Taalam

10. "Porambokku Paadal" Ragamalika in Anandabhairavi, Hameer Kalyani, Begada, Devagandhari, Salaga Bhairavi, Sindhubhairavi - ??

11. Nottuswaram "Santatam Paahimaam Sangeeta Shyamale" in Shankarabharanam - Dikshitar - Rupakam
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shankarank
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#14 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by shankarank » 12 Sep 2018, 09:36

Ranganayaki wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 10:42
Not heavy on neraval, korvais, kanakku, with the focus on ragas and songs and mood and emotion. Different from the showmanship we expect from everyone, but the music wasn't missing.
I need to ask you : what you mean by music? I was listening to Amritha Murali @ the Ramnad Centenary series as usual with the silent Arun ! We complained about neraval styled sangatis, but we have gone to Alapanai style neraval and worse Alapanai style kriti rendition as well.

To express a rAga , you only need an Akaram, well if you need anchoring, your have some syllabic anchors like te-da-ri-na . Why do you need to anchor yourself with additional syllables?

The word song here itself is misleading. We have bought into this notion that we as humans are capable of having moods that can be expressed via language which is used for communication and the song is language in that sense. Complete lack of humility ( well I don't have any other word that is not carrying an anthropocentric notion!)

This is completely an English Literature notion, and this is NOT how the tradition viewed sAhitya.

So it will be better if you don't use characterizations like "showmanship" , "koRvais" , "kanakkus" , "neraval" if you don't have the correct understanding of Indian traditions.

kORvai is taught by teaching the underlying logic, math, pattern building - and that is vyAkaraNa or grammar a tool for Guru to have conversation with Sishya. That itself is sacred.

A rasika in the traditions does not experience it like that. You should know the difference between the two. Don't carry notions of grammar , with assumed superiority of human intelligence ( that I can understand this kORvai because I can figure out it's math kind of attitude!) to judge these things.

That is where from the first word to the last T.M Krishna is entirely wrong!!! He understood it wrongly, what was actually also not a complete state of music - for many other reasons, and then started criticizing it!

Even in a sadas, a vidvAn does not judge a kORvai player simply by the math!
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#15 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Ranganayaki » 12 Sep 2018, 10:31

TMK opened with a beautiful Vrittam on the Supreme One:

"Om Tatsat. Shri Narayana Tu. Purushottama Guru Tu. Siddha Buddhi Tu. Skanda -Vinayaka Savitaapaavaka Tu. Bramha Mazda Tu. ...-Shakti Tu. Eeshu Tu. Eeshupita Tu. Ramakrishna Tu. Raheem-TaoTu. Rudra-Vishnu Tu. Vishnu Purana Krishna Tu. ... Akaala Nirbhaya Aatma Linga Tu.. Om Tatsat!! "


He segued into the kriti with a few "baaro" added at the end of the Vrittam.. Rk Shriramkumar and Arun Prakash were delightful musical extensions of TMK's sensitive voice, also in the slow kalpanaswarams which I almost didn't notice for what they were, it was just music 😊.

This was simple and fundamental truth (with a capital T) just simplicity and beauty... Primed by the message of Oneness with all the various words for the Absolute, I had an instantly spiritual response with the mention of Ramakrishna, almost as though I was in deep meditation myself, it had never happened before! I don't have words for it, "transported" is not quite it. I was very much present, but enveloped by the music, my mind was - secluded!! Then the song ended, and the doors opened with a bang it seemed, and all the late-comers who could not enter during the first piece charged in like rhinos to my mind, and my mood was destroyed.

The Kharaharapriya was very nice, not much to say about it, except that I couldn't help thinking what a great team they were. There were moments of silence, the kind TMK seems to quietly enjoy in the middle of his music and his team know just what to do.. Just play a note, or be quiet, and play nothing... KAP plays a soft basic beat and knows the value and power of mridangam silence in a concert, such a relief after years of mostly continuously noisy mridangists! Neraval at " Sakala Mahitendra Neelamani Nibha Shareera Paahi Saketa Naayaka." The neraval segued into swaras, elaborating around the upper rishabha, with a very quick koraippu and the violinist taking the lead for sarvalaghus, seamlessly followed by TMK's with the mridangam alternating between fine and strong sound. The piece ended with a short solo by the mridangist with a simple korvai ending without too much fanfare.

Shankarabharanam Taanam.. I was aware this time not to be surprised by the absence of an alapana and not to expect a Pallavi or anything in Shankarabharanam following it. And when you don't have those expectations, it is very easy to adjust when the kutcheri does not follow the usual predictable lines, but presents so much other beauty to experience.

The Taanam came to a rather simple end and I was reminded of some other inspired Taanam endings, which this one didn't have, but it was all right. He asked the audience to show how many of us knew Malayalam, and some people raised hands, and he says to laughter,"Ok, first thing you do is to excuse my Malayalam, and secondly you can tell your neighbor what the next song is about.." The beautiful song Kanivolum Kamaneeya Hridayam followed (in Shankarabharanam), and I had to google it to know the exact pallavi line. But it was clear that it was a song on Sri Jesus Christ. To be frank, the change was welcome, and jarred nobody's ears in the audience. He mentioned its credits as a film song.

I switched off for a moment feeling a little bored by the choice of "Vinatasuta Vahana," and didn't bother to follow the lyrics and meanings on an app as I usually do.. It turned out to be a mistake, as I found out later, talking to our friend Musikapriya after the concert. He explained how Thyagaraja himself asks if there can be sukha in pleasant words (sammata vaakkulu) without the flame of differences in "modes of worship"/opinion being extinguished. I realized that it was not a random filler but a well-chosen song to assuage the hurt we all felt by the negative circumstances surrounding the concert, and to question the hatred brought on by differences. Thyagaraja recommends the company of the pure-hearted (sat-sangati) who make no matter of any difference and who instead offer the comfort (saukhyamu) of Oneness, rather than the flames of difference (meaning here adapted from Sri VGV's work). I missed that moment in the concert, and a mind more open would have helped me enjoy it more. 😊 I'm glad he chose to sing it.

The ragamalika alapana was fantastic, with the alternate segueing from raga back to raga getting progressively shorter and more seamless. A true joy, without the intellect seeming to intervene in a moment of musical meditation. The meditative mood was set with the Varali seeming to come from the depth of his heart. He remained in the lower reaches of the primary octave, without exploring the uttarangam , but the exploration took him lower into the mandara sthayee, to the lower P, then lower around the M, back up to the P, all very normal, but then he went lower and lower exploring each swara, all the way to the S and the atimandara N, staying there for a moment before gently returning up the lower octave to finish and hand it to RKSK who continued the meditation, also remaining in the lower octave. It was not just the audience who was touched, but Sri KAP and RKSK also appeared to be very moved. My heart filled up and I can only count on you all knowing the feeling that is not something to describe.

There was a ten-second hint of Brindavana Saranga before "Soundararajam Ashraye," beautifully done. This was followed by a short Tani. There were moments of laughter and appreciation during this, but the reason escaped me.

It was a little difficult for me to catch all the words of the Vrittam that began in Lathangi, but there is another version of it in different ragas at https://soundcloud.com/rajesh-garga/mud ... n-virutham .

Mudiatha tuyaril Naan moozhgikkidakkindren
Moorkam soozhnthida marugith Thavikkindren
Vidiyatha irul pothil vegu dooram kadanthu virainthu vanthu vanthu
ILamai valuvodu padiyeri padiyeri padam thoynthavan
Padum Paadu paarka Parvai thiruppu nee
Madiyeru mugameru malarpola vaadidum manamerumarul Neekku
Maathorubaagane.

He later announced that the Vrittam was a composition of PerumaaL Murugan.

The heartbreaking Porambokku Paadal was sung at someone's request.

It was a wonderful concert, truly a concerted effort of like-minded individuals there, from the family who took the initiative to organize it, to the artists, to the audience who supported it by showing up, each and every member..

Clearly, TMK who spoke to give thanks was touched, and he acknowledged the sudden change in significance that the concert took and said that it was not so much that it was a TMK concert that it needed to happen, but because a democracy is the only humanly made structure gives us the ability to share empathy and transcend differences. He said that as a democratic idea, this concert was extremely important.

About art, he made the point that we say that art transcends, going beyond religion, gender, but in fact art doesn't really "go" anywhere of its own accord. So if art really should create dialog and open or cross boundaries then human beings need to make the effort to make it happen. Artists and all who share art have to make the effort to make the conversation possible, regardless of the boundaries of religion, or gender.

The wonderful thing that came out of all the noise, he said, was that we all came together to do something. As you know, I agree heartily. He concluded, after thanking the people crucial to his tour, by saying, "Thank you very much, DC, you made it very special." It really was moving.
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Ranganayaki
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#16 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Ranganayaki » 12 Sep 2018, 11:33

shankarank wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 09:36
Ranganayaki wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 10:42
Not heavy on neraval, korvais, kanakku, with the focus on ragas and songs and mood and emotion. Different from the showmanship we expect from everyone, but the music wasn't missing.
...
What's your point?
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SrinathK
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#17 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by SrinathK » 12 Sep 2018, 12:19

shankarank wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 09:36
Ranganayaki wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 10:42
Not heavy on neraval, korvais, kanakku, with the focus on ragas and songs and mood and emotion. Different from the showmanship we expect from everyone, but the music wasn't missing.
I need to ask you : what you mean by music? I was listening to Amritha Murali @ the Ramnad Centenary series as usual with the silent Arun ! We complained about neraval styled sangatis, but we have gone to Alapanai style neraval and worse Alapanai style kriti rendition as well.

To express a rAga , you only need an Akaram, well if you need anchoring, your have some syllabic anchors like te-da-ri-na . Why do you need to anchor yourself with additional syllables?

The word song here itself is misleading. We have bought into this notion that we as humans are capable of having moods that can be expressed via language which is used for communication and the song is language in that sense. Complete lack of humility ( well I don't have any other word that is not carrying an anthropocentric notion!)

This is completely an English Literature notion, and this is NOT how the tradition viewed sAhitya.

So it will be better if you don't use characterizations like "showmanship" , "koRvais" , "kanakkus" , "neraval" if you don't have the correct understanding of Indian traditions.

kORvai is taught by teaching the underlying logic, math, pattern building - and that is vyAkaraNa or grammar a tool for Guru to have conversation with Sishya. That itself is sacred.

A rasika in the traditions does not experience it like that. You should know the difference between the two. Don't carry notions of grammar , with assumed superiority of human intelligence ( that I can understand this kORvai because I can figure out it's math kind of attitude!) to judge these things.

That is where from the first word to the last T.M Krishna is entirely wrong!!! He understood it wrongly, what was actually also not a complete state of music - for many other reasons, and then started criticizing it!

Even in a sadas, a vidvAn does not judge a kORvai player simply by the math!
Do we really need to debate each and every word and concept here? :?

Maybe we can open a dictionary thread to discuss all terms Carnatic from A-Z and everyone can share their opinions there?
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#18 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Sivaramakrishnan » 12 Sep 2018, 13:38

If my understanding is correct, VRITTAM denotes meter in poetry. In Tamil it is known as 'Sandham', I think.

Virut(t)ham must be the usage in Tamil to denote musical rendering of verses.

Slokas (as verses are described in Sanskrit) are commonly rendered as Ragamalika Virutthams.

*******
Pratyaksham Bala has subtly noted this point (post #3)
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ram1999
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#19 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by ram1999 » 12 Sep 2018, 14:37

Ranganayaki wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 10:31
Clearly, TMK who spoke to give thanks was touched, and he acknowledged the sudden change in significance that the concert took and said that it was not so much that it was a TMK concert that it needed to happen, but because a democracy is the only humanly made structure gives us the ability to share empathy and transcend differences. He said that as a democratic idea, this concert was extremely important.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Ranganayaki
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#20 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by Ranganayaki » 12 Sep 2018, 17:52

Sivaramakrishnan wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 13:38
If my understanding is correct, VRITTAM denotes meter in poetry. In Tamil it is known as 'Sandham', I think.

Virut(t)ham must be the usage in Tamil to denote musical rendering of verses.

Slokas (as verses are described in Sanskrit) are commonly rendered as Ragamalika Virutthams.

*******
Pratyaksham Bala has subtly noted this point (post #3)
Ok.. Thank you 😊
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#21 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by bilahari » 12 Sep 2018, 18:29

Thank you for that heartfelt narration of the concert, Ranganayaki. While I do not care for TMK's rather unfocused political writing, and decreasingly care for his unstructured and often uneven brand of music, I agree very much that art is transcendental, and admire any authentic effort to make it so.
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#22 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by sureshvv » 12 Sep 2018, 18:49

Sivaramakrishnan wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 13:38
Pratyaksham Bala has subtly noted this point (post #3)
I thought he was wondering what the appropriate viruttam would be for a song on Allah. But Sundara Rajan sir has clarified.
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#23 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by harimau » 12 Sep 2018, 18:57

Ranganayaki wrote:
12 Sep 2018, 10:31
TMK opened with a beautiful Vrittam on the Supreme One:

"Om Tatsat. Shri Narayana Tu. Purushottama Guru Tu. Siddha Buddhi Tu. Skanda -Vinayaka Savitaapaavaka Tu. Bramha Mazda Tu. ...-Shakti Tu. Eeshu Tu. Eeshupita Tu. Ramakrishna Tu. Raheem-TaoTu. Rudra-Vishnu Tu. Vishnu Purana Krishna Tu. ... Akaala Nirbhaya Aatma Linga Tu.. Om Tatsat!! "
He forgot the Holy Ghost! Only Yesu and Yesu's Dad. (Not Joseph, but the Big Guy Up There). This is what happens when one goes to The School of J Krishnamurthy and Vivekananda College as opposed to a good Jesuit college like Loyola.
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#24 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by vijay.siddharth » 12 Sep 2018, 19:01

@harimau, not only have the content of your posts become contentious, but the quality of your writing has deteriorated! You forgot the inverted comma between Yesu and s in the phrase 'yesu's dad'!
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harimau
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#25 Re: TMK at Georgetown University Intercultural Center (ICC) Auditorium

Post by harimau » 12 Sep 2018, 19:04

Sundara Rajan wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 09:06
I do not understand the objection to carnatic songs on "AllAh". AllAh does not refer to any muslim god ! The Arabic word Allah simply means the "supreme being", God, KadvUL in Tamil, BhagavAn in Sanskrit.
Why don't you tell that to the authorities in Malaysia? They threatened the Christian Church that if they used Allah for Jehovah, they would be prosecuted for blasphemy.

I know, we are not like them! Whatever that means!
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