Hamsanadham

ANILAJAIDEEP · Post by **ANILAJAIDEEP** » 20 Dec 2007, 13:01

I need bantu reeti koluvu by sudha ramanathan i like it very much.
any one can help me in this issue?

srinath · Post by **srinath** » 28 Dec 2007, 00:27

hi,
does anyone have RTP in HAMSANAADHAM(any singer),kindly help.

thanku

baboosh · Post by **baboosh** » 29 Dec 2007, 21:25

ANILAJAIDEEP wrote:I need bantu reeti koluvu by sudha ramanathan i like it very much.
any one can help me in this issue?

Who is Sudha Ramanathan?Are you referring to Sudha Raghunathan?

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 17 Jan 2009, 14:35

This post was motivated by a rendition of the raga by Sri TS Kalyanaraman in the Charsur 3 CD album of a concert in 1963. I noticed distinct D3 usage in an alaapana for Bantureethi. Although I realize that the raga is classified under Mela 60 the latter part of which is PD3N3S, I was not aware that the raga itself employs D3.

I looked up TKG and neither the raga aro/avaro nor the notation of the krithi itself includes the note. However the aro-avaro provided in Karnatik.com contains D3 in the descent. What is the stand of the SSP?

So is there a school/version which accepts the usage of D3 in this raga? Is this is also true for the krithi itself? Any others which use D3 as a standard prayoga? I am guessing there has to be since one cannot understang classification under Mela 60 otherwise (Kalyani or Simhendramadhyamam/Dharmavathi make more sense).

Finally is this raga Thyagaraja's creation or do we have compositions that predate Bantureethi?

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 17 Jan 2009, 15:17

Vijay,
SSP doesn't list hamsanada. it only has rAgas in which Dikshitar has composed
There is a version of HamsanAda with shatshruti dhaivatam, and people from theGNB-TSK school sing it that way. as does Balamuralikrishna. There are renditions by MS where it (D3) can be discerned as an anuswara.

'Kalyanarama' is a song in Hamsanada by UthukAdu venkatasubbayar which has both the rare prayogas of the raga - pDn and rgr. GNB has composed two songs BhArama Ee bAluni brOva and Dasha-shata-dala or something like that. I have heard the former and have seen the notation too.
It includes both these sanchAras.
There are musicians who sing the songs Kalyanarama and bhArama in a bowlderized, politically correct srmpns/snpmrs way.

If you subscribe to the idea that u.Venkatasubbayar predates thyAgaraja and that the tunes we sing his songs in now, are his tunes, then you have a hamsanada piece which predates Thyagaraja.

And presence or absence of a note doesn't make a janya-janaka logic complete. srmpns/snpmrs version of swan-song would still be a janya of nItimathi.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 17 Jan 2009, 15:49

Thanks Keerthi. It makes sense now. But about the classification of the raga (sans D3), is it appropriate to classify a varja janya which does nto have a Vivadhi swara under a Vivadhi Mela? Even if we assign it to "the first mela to which the swaras correspond", perhaps it should go to Simhendramadhyamam (57) rather than Chalanata (60)? Or is the classification based on how a particular swara/usage of anuswaras in Hamsanadam corresponds with their counterparts Chalanata (i. e Hamsadhwani/Mohanam -> Kalyani logic)

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 17 Jan 2009, 15:59

Also found this interesting link from another forum (still in existence?). Fascinating how discussions veer around to the same topics every once in a while! Guess all of us have our learning curves!

http://www.forumhub.com/indcmusic/7769.10.05.59.htm

Jigyaasa · Post by **Jigyaasa** » 17 Jan 2009, 16:42

I've heard Smt Radha and Jayalakshmi sing bhAramA and they sing the "bowdlerized" version only despite their possibly havin learnt it str8 from him...

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 17 Jan 2009, 18:16

HMB's Krupanidhe is with D3 only.(Neethimathi janya)

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 17 Jan 2009, 18:41

Vijay - yes the topic has repeated. Here is my post in RMIC from 1995 (wow I have been on these forums for 14 years!): http://groups.google.com/group/rec.musi ... ?lnk=gst&q

Sanjay Sub has mentioned to me that Sri Kalayanaraman was a preponent of the use of the D3 in Hamsanadham. Other musicians I have spoken to suggest that the D3 is more of a gamakam deviation from the N3 and hence does not strictly appear in the avarohanam.

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 17 Jan 2009, 19:12

In addition to points made by Mohan, Srini Pichumani, and others in that 1995 rmic thread...

1. S. Balachander played hamsanAda with an occasional ShaTshruti dhaivata in AlApanA as well as in the kRti baNTurItikoluviyavaiyyarAma.

2. Smt. Kalpakam Swaminathan's pAThAntara includes an D3 in every ascent phrase, both in AlApanA and in the same kRti.

3. Some excerpts from the comments page of the Marwa article by Rajan Parrikar on sawf.org, circa 2002:

* Rajan Parrikar: The shatshruti dhaivatam in Hamsanada is rarely sung these days but great musicians such as Muthiah Bhagavatar were known to take in that swara.

* Chitravina Ravikiran:Interesting discussion on prayogas. Even recently, there have been artistes like Veena Balachandar and S Kalyanaraman who used the D3 in Hamsanadam as a rare phrase. I endeavour to follow this practise too (in my own compositions and concerts) as it gives the raga a striking identity. We can safely place it under 60.

4. Smt. Vedavalli's 2005 IIT lec-dem coverage by Bharath on his blog:
The presence of shatsruti dhaivadam in banTu rIti was mentioned and sancarams like 'p d n s n p' were clearly shown both while rendering the kriti and while singing kalpanai svarams. The usage of the dhaivatam was very evident right in the pallavi line and thereafter all thro' the kriti.

5. Ashwin on rasikas.org 2006, possibly based on his guru Prof. SRJ : As I understand it, the archaic form of hamsanAdam, as given in sangraha cUDAmaNi and employed by tyAgarAjA, contained ShaTSruti dhaivatam - I believe the original name of what we sing today as hamsanAdam is "varadA".

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 Jan 2009, 20:29

Does D.D.Desikar use it 'pADa vENDumE'?

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 17 Jan 2009, 20:48

Vijay,
The swarUpam of a vivAdi rAga is not characterised by the vivAdi swara(s).{Yes, this is a vivAdable topic}
It is the anuswaras and their use creating characteristic motifs that prove raga-pedigree.
If one can smoothly go into the Janaka rAga by introducing the extra notes into a janya rAga in the course of an Alapa or tana, it will confirm the janaka-janya relationship.

Jigyaasa,
I have it from a reliable source that the R-J sisters didn't learn from GNB. they learnt from a student, and might have occasionaly learnt a song or two from GNB.

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 17 Jan 2009, 21:02

Thanks Keerhi. In light of Mohan's and Vainika's excellent posts, it seems to make sense for it to go under 60. Now to give another twist, how did TKG zero in of the "minus D3" version - I know he was Musiri's student. Perhaps this Bani which followed a different version.

keerthi · Post by **keerthi** » 18 Jan 2009, 10:43

Vijay,

I have the greatest respect for chroniclers like Rangaramanuja ayyangar, Dr. Pinakapani, TKGovinda rao , Manchala jagannatha rao etc; who have taken great pains to collect, annotate and publish 'complete' works of the vaggeyakaras.

It has been my observation that sometimes, when only sAhityam has been known, a notation has been cooked up. Often alternate pAtantaras don't even merit a mention.

TKG must have just known about one version/arbitrarily chosen one.

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 18 Jan 2009, 11:30

TKG seems to have collected song notations from various sources, not limited to his guru.

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 18 Jan 2009, 14:10

Hamsanadam has been described by Dr. S. Bhagyalakshmy in her book on Raga Lakshanas as a shadava vakra shadava janya raga derived from the 60th mela Neetimati with the following aarohana - s r m p d n s* and avarohana - s* n d n p m r s. She notes that R and N are jiva swaras. The example given for sanchara is intriguing:
R m p d N d n p m R - s r M , r s n.d. n. p. d. n. s R - R m p D p m R -m p d n d p - n d m p m R - S r M p d n s*- s* n n d d n n p p m R s

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 18 Jan 2009, 16:49

Thanks once again for your responses. Nandagopal - how is one to interpret the dots and capitalizations in the phrases you have outlined? Dots I presume would be mandra sthayi...how about the capitalized swaras?

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 18 Jan 2009, 17:03

Vijay - dots as subscript denote the mandra sthayi; stars as superscript denote tara sthayi. the capitals denote two aksharas for example m , is the same as M

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 18 Jan 2009, 18:53

Ah..thanks

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 19 Jan 2009, 16:30

arasi wrote:Does D.D.Desikar use it 'pADa vENDumE'?

No. The version sung by Sanjay in his mArgazhi mahA utsavam is a straight SRMPNS SNPMRS. The swaras confirm it. I could not also discern it in Smt. Sowmya's version...

carnaticdasan · Post by **carnaticdasan** » 19 Jan 2009, 17:38

Sri TVS used to sing "Mantrabalam Adainthe Alayam Mantralayam"of Tulasivanam(correct if iam wrong)in this ragam as a tukuda piece.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 19 Jan 2009, 18:13

The song is by Madurai T.Krishnan.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Jan 2009, 09:22

Thanks, Prashanth. I was not sure. A delightful song, anyway.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 20 Jan 2009, 09:47

arasi wrote:Thanks, Prashanth. I was not sure. A delightful song, anyway.

Definitely. Each time I listen to it, I think 'kattukka vENDumE'

carnaticdasan · Post by **carnaticdasan** » 23 Jan 2009, 09:39

Thanks Lakshmanji

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Jan 2009, 21:59

I actually love the hamsanadam without D3 i.e. i love the musical flavor of s r2 m2 p n3 s/s n3 p m2 r2 s - whatever its name be. That is a very underrated raga in my opinion.

So the raga with D3 added (even if original), for my tastes would immediately rank several notches below - mainly due to my strong favorable bias for the non-D3 raga

Arun

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 04 Feb 2009, 06:10

Please listern to the song ' Kalyanarama" of Oothukkad sung by Smt. Aruna Sairam as well by Sri. Ramnad Krishnan from the following links.

By Smt. Aruna Sairam:
http://www.mediafire.com/?gmv2rad10db

By Sri. Ramnad Krishnan
http://www.mediafire.com/?ut4yjlybnw4

The lyrics are given under.

kalyaaNa raama - hamsanaadam-Aadi- Ottukadu Venkatasubbiyer
Artist:Sri. Ramnad Krishnan
60 neetimati janya
Aa: S R2 M2 P D3 N3 S
Av: S N3 D3 P M2 R2 S

kalyANarAma raghurAma rAma kanaka makuTa marakata maNi lOla hAra dasharatha bAla sItA

mallikAdi sugandha maya nava mAlikAdi shObhitagaLEna
ulhAsa parishIlana cAmara ubhaya pArshvEna kuNDala kElana

Agata suravara munigaNa sajjana agaNita janakana ghOSita mangaLa
rAghava raghurAma rAma janakajA ramaNa manOhara sItA

gautama vashISTa nArada tumburu kAshyapAdi munigaNa vara pUjita
aupavAhya skanda dEsha alankrta haima simhAsanasthita sItA

bhAgadEya bahumAna sudhAya ubhatArpita dishi dishi rakSakavara
mEgha vAhanaravAhanAdhinuta EkarAja mahArAja mamarAja

Radhekrishna
Hariharan

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 04 Feb 2009, 20:55

Thanks Hariharan-ji for posting the two nice clips of kalyANarAma. I could not find D3 in either rendition except perhaps as an anusuggestion...

Here's the ShaTshruti-dhaivata-samEta rendition of baNTurIti by Smt. Kalpakam Swaminathan that I had mentioned in the vamshavatI thread. It's an excerpt: intervening conversations have been snipped out.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/7b3544d9-a75f ... _baNTurIti

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 05 Feb 2009, 01:31

http://www.acidplanet.com/components/em ... 083&T=9813 - here is a rendition of kalyANarAma

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 05 Feb 2009, 02:47

vainika wrote:Thanks Hariharan-ji for posting the two nice clips of kalyANarAma. I could not find D3 in either rendition except perhaps as an anusuggestion...

Here's the ShaTshruti-dhaivata-samEta rendition of baNTurIti by Smt. Kalpakam Swaminathan that I had mentioned in the vamshavatI thread. It's an excerpt: intervening conversations have been snipped out.
http://www.esnips.com/doc/7b3544d9-a75f ... _baNTurIti

Thanks Vainika. This pATHantara seems to have more usage of D3 than some other renditions I have heard.

-Ramakriya

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 05 Feb 2009, 09:32

Ashwin, I was wondering if you could share a recording of your+Rohin's rendition of baNTurIti, since your version has D3 as well - would be interesting to examine: thanks.

108talas · Post by **108talas** » 05 Feb 2009, 12:19

Has Shri KalyANarAmA given any recording of 'kalyANarAmA of OVK ? ( would be a fitting treat one by the other). We can also find our how he is sung HamShanAdam.

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 05 Feb 2009, 20:51

Yes, Respected sri 'vainika' the note D3 is not used as a major note in the rendition of Kalyanarama. In fact, usage of the note D3 as an anuswara to N3 note, adds beauty during the raga 'alapanam'', especially on a harmonium-solo rendition of the raga.
At the same time, absence of the note D3 in a Keerthan rendition, does not at all alter the raga 'bhavam' at any level.

Can I remark that, the note D3 in Hamsanadam and that of the note G3 in the rag Aarabhi , have the same role play in the raga vistharam ( a silent note)

kishorepalle · Post by **kishorepalle** » 20 Mar 2009, 05:57

Hello All,

Please listen to my composition in raga Hamsanadha at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJUGXPyK3DA . Please post your suggestions/comments.

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 20 Mar 2009, 12:47

Sri.kishorepalle, The song 'Saranu Sankara' is really very nicely composed and beautifully sung too. I wish you all the best in your every efforts to deliver such pleasant contributions to the music world. I hope this song is set to Roopaka Talam or is it set to Adi tala- Tisram .

I post my humble views as under:

Giving a sharp ear to your song, You have very mildly but nicely used D3 (as I felt so) at few places in the song, along with the Pa note. This 'prayoga' has added beauty to the raga , viz. sounding of the note D3 as anu swara to note Pa, that does make the song very melodious and bit unique too.
Good efforts and keep it up.

2. The lyrics of the song copied from Youtube site is posted here. Most of the kritis are of the type, begins with a pallavi, followed by anu-pallavi and charanam. It is also very common to sing both the anupallavi and the last 2 lines of the charanam of a Kriti in the same style. Is this song composed in the format Pallavi, Anu Pallavi and charanam format? If so, why the style/way of singing the Anupallavi and the last 2 line of the charanam are different in this song. Can you please post the correct structure/frame of the lyrics if the one given below is an incorrect structure.

3. I wish to know the word by word meaning of this song, as I donot know this language .

Rag: Hamsnadha.

Saranu Sankara
Saranu Dayakara
Saranu Sankara ||
Kalanaina Marachithiney
Aakali naina Marachithiney
Nee Seva
Saranu Sankara ||
Paapamu Punyamu
Karmamu Kaalamu
Kaamamu Kaamitham
Ihamu Paramu
Neevenani Nee laasyamani
Kishora Vandhithaaa
(Kalanaina Marachithiney)
Saranu Sankara ||

Thank you and look forward to your clarifications.
Hariharan

kishorepalle · Post by **kishorepalle** » 20 Mar 2009, 21:00

Hello Hariharan sir,

Thanks for your comments and here is my attempt to give you the meaning for the keerthana. This is in Telugu. As you know it is kinda difficult for me explain the Bhava sahityam in English but I'll try my best to tell you my feelings while writing this keerthana:)

BTW, where are you from?

Pallavi:

I surrender to you Sankara, the one who is the manifestation of compassion and kindness.

Anu Pallavi:

Do I forget your seva even in my dreams (Kala) (in my sleep)
and while doing so, I forget my hunger (Akali) too

Charanam:

Bad or Good
Destiny/Fortune or Time/Spell
Likes/Dislikes
earthly/anything materialistic or heavenly/immaterial

everything is you and the game that you play with us

(Kalanina Marachitiney) saahithyam in anupallavi repeats here to show that
do I forget this that you are the one and only even in my dreams??

followed by Pallavi which is nothing but, I bow to the omnipotent, Sri Mahadeva.

Hope that helps. Thanks for listening to my compositions.

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 21 Mar 2009, 07:45

Thanks Sri. Kishorepalle for the content meaning of your nice composition. Please also confirm the 'Tala" set for this song by you.
Wish you again all the best in your future music ventures.

Hariharan

hariharan · Post by **hariharan** » 22 Mar 2009, 13:20

Very kind of you for your reply. Good luck
Hariharan

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 10 Apr 2009, 08:43

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsNSkYYkQtw - please take a listen to this enchanting rendition by Maithili Anantharaman

mahesh3 · Post by **mahesh3** » 05 Jul 2009, 08:19

Hariharan-ji, The kalyanarama you have posted is by OST and Mysore Nagaraj. Just clarifying...its not Ramnad Krishnan, as far as I can make out. FYI. Nice renedition, I must say.

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 05 Jul 2009, 10:12

kalyanarama in raaga hamsanadam has also been sung by ,Kasturi rangan, a deserving but unlucky disciple of Sri .T.N.Seshagopalan It is available in music india online .com gobilalitha

satyabalu · Post by **satyabalu** » 25 Sep 2010, 17:20

rbharath wrote:the vivadhi dhaivadham is actually present in some version of bantureeti. Senior Vidwans like Sangeetha Kalanidhi R Vedavalli sing the kriti with the dhaivadham. The dhaivadham is clearly shown in the anupallavi of her rendering. I may have a recording. will check and post if i can find it.

SKA SRJ maintains* this Raga to be handled with Shatsruti Daivatham.According to him, the Raga will be "Varata"(59),Janya of Dharmavathi if DHA is avoided.
*When I listen to the compositions I find there is no DHA.including Tanjore Sankara Iyer kriti containing Arohana &Avarohana in the sahithyam.I wish I listen to those who sing with D3.
.*Raga Lakshanangal-Part 3-Tamil-Page-134.

SriramCarnatic · Post by **SriramCarnatic** » 05 Oct 2010, 12:58

Chendhoora vadivazhagai
A bhajan on Ayyappa....
I think this is in Hamsanadam

http://www.hummaa.com/music/album/Sampr ... 204)/23178

In this link, there is a song "Chendhoora"
That is the one I am referring to...

Here the singer has sung it with a viruththam`

askn · Post by **askn** » 06 May 2012, 17:37

There are renditions of Hamsanadam that linger in the mind, like Chittibabu's Bantureeti, Tanjavur Kalyanaraman's Bhaarama or T N Seshagopalan's Kalyana Rama. But it is not often that one gets to hear a ragam tanam pallavi in a raga like Hamsanadam, beautiful though the raga is. Log on to www.radioweb.in to listen to an hour-long RTP in Hamsanadam by the Carnatica Brothers, Shashikiran and Ganesh.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 26 Jun 2019, 19:27

Here is a lovely rendition of dasha shatadaLa by Sandeep Narayan.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/5iab98

ajaysimha · Post by **ajaysimha** » 27 Jun 2019, 20:53

hello rasikas,

is there any recording of kalyana rama of ovk where all the 3 charanams are sung ??

rasikas.org

Hamsanadham

Re: Hnadamamsa

Re: Hamsanadham

Re: Hamsanadham

Re: Hamsanadham

Re: Hamsanadham