meaning- vElayyA - sAvEri

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 08 Apr 2007, 20:08

taaLam: aadi
Composer: KOTeeshwara Aiyyar
Language: Tamil

pallavi

vElayyA dayavillaiyA enakkaruL sheyya manamillaiyA singAra

anupallavi

mAl ayyA koDe ninkAl ayyA viDEn enpAl ayyA krpalavAlA bAlayyA

caraNam

mAlayyA magizh maruga kAlakAlaiyyA pugazh muruga udAra shIlayyA nin nenjam shilaiyA sholayyA malaiyA kavi kunjaradAsan enaiyALa

The above lyrics are from karnatik.com and are of course courtesy Lakshman Sir. I would appreciate some help with them - could someone proof-read? Sometimes it is listed as mAl ayyA, sometimes mAlaiya - just would like to know the correct pronunciation. Thanks in advance for helping Tamizh-challenged me

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Apr 2007, 21:15

Prashant,
Two things here. The thamizh IS a bit antiquated even for those who perhaps know a bit more of thamizh than you do.
mAlaiyyA (mAl+ aiyyan= vishNu) marugan= nephew. Since the song abounds with yA sounds, it seems so to me (corrections welcome from experts and grammarians).
I love the composer and the rAgam, and I suppose you have heard Sanjay render it. A favorite kriti of mine...

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 08 Apr 2007, 21:37

Thanks arasi for that clarification. I have heard Sanjay render it ages ago, but I'm working off Smt. Vedavalli's rendition. It's a lovely song, I agree. The brisk-paced sAvEri and the mood of the lyrics are just beautiful together...

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 08 Apr 2007, 21:42

koDe doesn't seem right...
ninkAl ayyA viDEn = I will not let go of your feet
enpAl ayyA = Oh Lord (ayyA) {please shower} on me (enpAl = towards me)

kAlakAlaiyyan is probably Siva or yama...
udAra shIlayyA = some one who is lofty/generous and filled with sterling qualities (shIlan/shIlayyan)

nenjam shilaiyA = is your heart (nenjam) made of stone (shilaiyA)/are you cold hearted as a stone?
shollayyA = please tell me (sholl) my Lord (ayyA)...
I think malaiyA = murugan occupies temples on hill-tops - so he is malaiyan...as opposed to mAlayyan who is his mAmA...

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 08 Apr 2007, 21:45

rshankar: Vedavalli Amma sings it as 'mAlayA koDEn' - that seems to make sense since it rhymes with 'viDEn'?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 08 Apr 2007, 23:42

My take on "mAl ayyA koDEn ninkAl viDEn":

This ayyA is a watchword that is repeated all over. It is like some people add "sir" in their conversation. You see sir that I sir will not sir......

The word "mAl" has some 20 meanings or so. One of them is "confusion" or "bewilderment". Here KOTIswara Iyer perhaps implies that he will not be deluded or confused "mAl koDEn". As is obvious KI was a great scholar in Thamizh and Sanskrit, like his grandfather Kavi Kunjara Bharathi.

KI in his song "vAraNa mukhavA.." mentions in (mock) self-deprecation "innisai iyal ilakkiyam Ariyam tamizh aRivEduminRi" when he invokes Lord Ganesha's blessings. Despite his immense knowledge he pleads ignorance so that he will get the blessings of vAraNa mukha Ganapati.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 09 Apr 2007, 00:23

Let me join the race here:

pallavi:

vElayyA (vEl + ayyA): O Lord who sports the Holy Spear
dayavillaiyA (dayai + illaiyA): Don't You have any compassion for me
enakkaruL (enakku + aruL): bless me (shower your blessings)
sheyya: to do
manamillaiyA: Don't You have any heart
singAra: Beautiful (may be a little sophisticated beauty)

anupallavi:

If taken as mAl ayyA koDe as Sub as already pointed out
mAl - confusion
ayyA - Lord
koDe - if you give

If taken as mAl ayyA koDen in Smt RV's version

mAl - mayakkam/kAdal
ayyA - Lord
koDen = kODukka mATTEn? I wont give ????? (Does not make sense to me)

ninkAl - Your Feet
ayyA - Lord
viDEn - I wont leave
enpAl - Towards me
ayyA - Lord
krpalavAlA - one who is always with kRpa (kRpaiyE vaDivamAna)
bAlayyA - Child who is my Lord

caraNam:

mAlayyA - Lord nArAyanA
magizh - enjoys/loves
maruga - nephew

kAlakAlaiyyA
kAlan - yama dharma rAja
kAlkAlayyan - paramaSivanAr (Ref: periyasAmi tUran kriti kAlakAlan kayilainAtan in atAnA)
kAlkAlayyan pugazh murugA - O beautiful Lord praised by paramaSivanAr

(murugU enRAl azhagU stated by nakkIrar in tirumurugARRupaSai ???)

udAra - generous
shIlayyA (SIla + ayyA) - natured + Lord
nin - Your
nenjam - Heart
shilaiyA - Is it a stone?
sholayyA - Lord Tell me
malaiyA - Lord of the Hills, tiruveragattAn, svAmimalai nAtan
I have taken svAmimalai here since just a few words before this KI mentioned that murugan is being praised by paramaSivan.

But shouldn't this word be malaiyyA (malai + ayyA)???

kavi kunjaradAsan - dAsan to kavi kunjara bhArathi (composer mudra)
enaiyALa - To protect me.

KI in his song "vAraNa mukhavA.." mentions in (mock) self-deprecation "innisai iyal ilakkiyam Ariyam tamizh aRivEduminRi" when he invokes Lord Ganesha's blessings. Despite his immense knowledge he pleads ignorance so that he will get the blessings of vAraNa mukha Ganapati.

Sub - Isn't this called naiccyAnusandAnam?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Apr 2007, 01:01

I merely went with one word. Others covered the lot.
With mAlaiyyA, koDE (n) nin kAl, it is murugan who sits on a hill. If you see it as 'enakkuth thAYEn, koDEN would make sense.

When it comes to the marugA line, the mAlayyA is his uncle.

I don't have S.Rajam's book here with me. When I read through it, I get the feeling that the tamizh in places is a bit antiquated, and it is also the particular style of KI.
While listening to the songs, I feel his zeal both for the sAhityA and for introducing the rAgAs. Needless to say, mudrAs and rAgA names, unless they happen, are difficult to compose...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 09 Apr 2007, 03:05

Much as karnATik.com performs a service, it needs to have some editors who are well-versed in the languages of the kritis found there. I pointed out several word errors and also wrong meanings in that site. There are transliteration errors all over. In that respect one cannot keep on guessing what a word means until the exact text is available. I tried to see if the same song in sAvEri is available in the 72 mELakarttA rAga kritis in the carnatica.net/lyrics/koti.pdf site without success. sAvEri is not at all mentioned there. That is a surprise!

I would, in the absence of another correct source for the kriti, read the line as:

mAlayyA koDEninkAl viDenenpAlayyA kripalavAlA bAlayyA
to be split as:

mAl, ayyA, koDEn ninkAl viDEn enpAl, ayyA, kripalavAlA bAlA, ayyA.

If we take the meaning of confusion or sancalam for mAl, koDEn (which will rhyme with viDEn to follow) will mean "will not yield to". He will not yield to confusion in his mind. He will not let go of the Lord's feet. If you take the AtticcUDi, you see "Ukkamadu kaiviDEl" (do not slacken), "nOikku iDam koDEl" (do not get sick, do not yield to sickness). In that respect the answer for "koDEl" would be "koDEn".

On top of having to include the mudrA and the rAgam name in the short song, KI assumes the additional responsibility of decorative alliteration.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 09 Apr 2007, 03:12

mahakavi wrote:I tried to see if the same song in sAvEri is available in the 72 mELakarttA rAga kritis in the carnatica.net/lyrics/koti.pdf site without success. sAvEri is not at all mentioned there. That is a surprise!

Possibly because sAvEri is a janya rAgam?...this composition is not part of the kandagAnAmrutam which has kritIs in the 72 mELa rAgas + the invocatory and mangaLa kritis.
AFAIK, it is only in the 72 mELa kritIs that he's included the rAga mudra.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 09 Apr 2007, 03:18

ksrimech:
kavikunjaradAsan was the mudra or Sri kOTISwara Iyer...he was brought up by his maternal GF after his father's death (when KI was very young) and the grandfather was both a father figure and guru...the grandfather was none other than Kavi Kunjara Bharati, and hence his disciple was kavikunjaradAsan...

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 09 Apr 2007, 03:39

rshankar- I have corrected it.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 09 Apr 2007, 07:03

I wake up to a series of erudite and scholarly explanations to my question... thanks to all of you!

Here is the recording by Smt. Vedavalli [courtesy Coolkarniji]:

http://www.badongo.com/file/2701923

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 09 Apr 2007, 09:19

Sub - Does tamizh ilakkaNam allow the interchange of D with L as in samskrita vyAkaraNa?

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 09 Apr 2007, 20:14

ksrimech:
I am not sure but, in my limited knowledge, I don't think so.

If you are thinking about "mAl koLEn" (I shall not accept the confusion or succumb to it) in place of "mAl koDEn" (I shall not yield to confusion) in order to get the meaning and context, the replacement may not be of much help. 'koLEn" (root word koL) would mean "will not accept" which would mean the same thing.

I still am not sure about the "mAl ayyA koD(E)(n)" itself. We need to seek an alternative source. I don't know if Lakshman has a different version although Lakshman may have been the contributor to karnATik.com.

There is the conjunctional distortion (puNarcci vigAram) from "L" to "T" as in muL + pudar = muTpudar (thorny bush). I am not aware of "L" to "D" or vice verse transformation.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 10 Apr 2007, 07:07

mahakavi: I will ask Vedavalli Amma herself about 'mAl ayyA kODEn' and post it here if possible today.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 10 Apr 2007, 07:29

Sub - thanks for the nice explanation.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 10 Apr 2007, 09:24

By the way, as I heard Smt. Vedavalli's rendition, it sounded to me like Sri KI was saying, 'I will not let you have/give (koDEn) the/your feet (ninkAl ayyA) that I have grasped, and will certainly not let go (viDEn)' alternately: 'I will not move - (inda iDam) koDEn - from the protection of your feet that I have sought refuge in (ninkAl viDEn).'

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 10 Apr 2007, 16:42

I checked with Vedavalli Amma today on her interpretation of the lyrics:

mAl ayyA koDEn - here mAl denotes love/affection. koDEn - give. Therefore mAl ayyA koDen denotes a request to Lord Muruga for his love.

The interpretation of malaiyA [Lord of the Hills] given by ksrimech is correct, according to Vedavalli Amma.

Thanks so much to all of you for your help!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 10 Apr 2007, 20:10

OK, it makes sense now. KI has used coloquial expression for koDu as koDEn (short form for koDuttu viDEn). mAl, as I noted before, has 20 different meanings and KI used the one that was not obvious to all of us. The usage of ayyA was handled deftly by KI which also threw most of us a curveball.

There is an expression in Thamizh, a lad asking his beloved when she is cross with him, "uLLamiLagAyO orupEccuraikkAyO" which can have two meanings.

1. uLLam = your heart/mind; miLagAyO = is it a chilli pepper? orupEccuraikkAyO = is it a giant gourd? (pEY= ghost or big; suraikkAy = gourd)

Meaning: Is your heart harsh (caustic) as a chilli pepper or is it a giant gourd (devoid of taste)

2. uLLam = your heart/mind; iLagAyO = won't it melt? (have compassion); orupEccu = some (kind) word; uraikkAyO = won't you utter?

Meaning: Won't you be kind to me? Won't you utter some (kind) words?

Play of words and deft construction!

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 10 Apr 2007, 20:52

Beautiful example, mahakavi.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Apr 2007, 21:30

mAl also means, among other things, pride (perumai). Any thoughts there, Sub?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Apr 2007, 22:01

sub
mahakavikkuranguvOrkavi

(of course I did not distinguish between 'R' and 'r'

(It amy help to note that 'kavi' also means 'monkey' in Tamil

Does anybody need parsing ? (sub will do it

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2007, 22:14

sevikkut tEnena rAgavan pugazhinait tiruttum
kavikku nAyagan anuman

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Apr 2007, 22:24

bravo!

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 10 Apr 2007, 22:26

Those are words of kamban

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 10 Apr 2007, 22:41

kamban oru vamban

---KaNNadAsan

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 10 Apr 2007, 23:04

prashant wrote:I checked with Vedavalli Amma today on her interpretation of the lyrics:

mAl ayyA koDEn - here mAl denotes love/affection. koDEn - give. Therefore mAl ayyA koDen denotes a request to Lord Muruga for his love.

The interpretation of malaiyA [Lord of the Hills] given by ksrimech is correct, according to Vedavalli Amma.

Thanks so much to all of you for your help!

Finally something from my mouth has turned out to be correct.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 10 Apr 2007, 23:05

Talking of kamban, here is a gem of his I want to share.

bAgattil oruvan vaittAn pankayattirunda peNNai
Agattil oruvan vaittAn andaNan nAvil vaittAn
mEgattil piRanda minnai venRa nuNNiDaiyinALai
mAgattOL vIrA peRRAl engnganam vaittu vAzhdI

That was sUrppanagai to rAvaNan describing sItA's beauty while exhorting him to get her for himself.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 11 Apr 2007, 00:49

mahakavi wrote:OK, it makes sense now. KI has used coloquial expression for koDu as koDEn (short form for koDuttu viDEn). mAl, as I noted before, has 20 different meanings and KI used the one that was not obvious to all of us. The usage of ayyA was handled deftly by KI which also threw most of us a curveball.

There is an expression in Thamizh, a lad asking his beloved when she is cross with him, "uLLamiLagAyO orupEccuraikkAyO" which can have two meanings.

1. uLLam = your heart/mind; miLagAyO = is it a chilli pepper? orupEccuraikkAyO = is it a giant gourd? (pEY= ghost or big; suraikkAy = gourd)

Meaning: Is your heart harsh (caustic) as a chilli pepper or is it a giant gourd (devoid of taste)

2. uLLam = your heart/mind; iLagAyO = won't it melt? (have compassion); orupEccu = some (kind) word; uraikkAyO = won't you utter?

Meaning: Won't you be kind to me? Won't you utter some (kind) words?

Play of words and deft construction!

Cool! I am right that there is perhaps there is another possibility albeit with a bit of liberty?

3. (bajjiyil) uLLa miLagAyo? orupEccuraikkAyo?

gist: are you silently suffering because of the spice of the chilli in the bajji? Wont you utter a word?

Arun

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Apr 2007, 01:09

Is it snack time where you are, arunk?

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 11 Apr 2007, 04:23

bAgattil oruvan vaittAn pankayattirunda peNNai
Agattil oruvan vaittAn andaNan nAvil vaittAn

Whats the meaning of the first two lines? I can understand the second two...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 Apr 2007, 04:36

prashant wrote:I checked with Vedavalli Amma today on her interpretation of the lyrics:

mAl ayyA koDEn - here mAl denotes love/affection. koDEn - give. Therefore mAl ayyA koDen denotes a request to Lord Muruga for his love.

The interpretation of malaiyA [Lord of the Hills] given by ksrimech is correct, according to Vedavalli Amma.

Thanks so much to all of you for your help!

In post #4, rshankar provided the same interpretation.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Apr 2007, 06:59

vasya10 wrote:
bAgattil oruvan vaittAn pankayattirunda peNNai
Agattil oruvan vaittAn andaNan nAvil vaittAn
Whats the meaning of the first two lines? I can understand the second two...

bAgattil oruvan vaittan= Sivan gave one half of his body to pArvati (ardhanArIswarar)
bAgam=part.
pankayam = lotus. Pankayattirunda peN = Lakshmi; vishNu kept Lakshmi in his chest (Agam).
andaNan = Brahma. He kept Saraswati in his tongue (nAvil vaittAn)

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 11 Apr 2007, 07:05

Thanks to rshankar also [sorry for the omission!]

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Apr 2007, 08:39

CML,
kavi kai pUmAlaiyO, pAmAlaiyO?
pATTuDaip pazham pulavarelAm
pArkkinRAr, badil kETpavarum thAn--
pATTuDAi pulavanum, padam pirippavanum
mayilERi varum nEram, nAmum kAththiruppOM...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Apr 2007, 08:57

padappaDuttiyavan pArttu ninRAn
padam pirippavan uRangac cenRAn
idamAgavE eDuttuc colla ninaittavarE
midamAgac colvadu nalam

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Apr 2007, 09:30

padappirivAl padappaDutthA padatthin vemmai
padappirivAl aNukil keDuM -- midappaDak
kURil vaithArai vAzha vaikkum thamizh therivArkku
chERil thiLaikkum chenthAmarai.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Apr 2007, 18:20

arasi wrote:CML,
kavi kai pUmAlaiyO, pAmAlaiyO?
pATTuDaip pazham pulavarelAm
pArkkinRAr, badil kETpavarum thAn--
pATTuDAi pulavanum, padam pirippavanum
mayilERi varum nEram, nAmum kAththiruppOM...

arasi:
We also serve those who wait in line (kAttituppOrgaLukkup paDaikkapaDum)

The following is in jest for you to ingest just in case....

kALamEgap pulavarpOl sIyem loverAm
kULamniRaic coRkaLai kuvittuc celvarAm ( or kuvitta selvarAm, if you please)
ELanamAyk kELviyuDan ediril niRparAm
mILavazhi onRumullai yEl

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Apr 2007, 18:27

chERil --->sERRil
While the intent is to rhyme with kURil, sERil is not an acceptable usage.

sERRil muLaitta sentAmarai is a standard expression.

ARu (river) + il --> ARRil (in the river). Example: azhagar ARRil iRanginAr.
sERu + il ---> sERRil(in the mud). The consonant gets doubled in the conjunction (puNarcci vigAram)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Apr 2007, 20:11

Of course poetic liberty

puNacchikkEn ilakkaNam pulavarE pAvinkaN, mana
kiLarcchikku vaDikaal thAn vakuppIrO-- iyaRkkai
inbatthirkkum vilangiDuthal nanRO kURumin
anbirkkuM uNDO aDaikkum thaazh.

(note I don't follow 'sh' 'cha', 'ca' differences since there is no 'sh' letter in thamizh. I use 'cha' liberally but you know from context the phonetics!). I would use Arun's software to post in tamizh but am stuck with the roman transliterations for those who cannot read tamizh script !
Pity

(puNarcci vigAram)

???!!
puNarcci sundaram

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Apr 2007, 20:29

CML,
From grammatic to romantic to...?
Before sub dreams up 'bog' culture enterprises, veN thAmarai vITRiruppavaLAiyE vaNanguvOm, kavigaLellAm...

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Apr 2007, 20:45

Cmlover:
Let your "Free Spirit" flourish! No I will not subject you to the shackles of grammar when your imagination runs riot with due pleasure.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Apr 2007, 20:55

veN thAmarai vIRRiruppAL kalai arasi!
Sen thAmarai vIRRiruppAL pon arasi!
pon thAmarai (golden throne) vIRRiruppAL malai arasi (rAjarAjEshvari)!
(Rasikar) idaya thAmarai vIRRiruppAL nam arasi

sub

No ecstasy comparable to enjoying good thamizh!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Apr 2007, 21:14

yAn vENDuvadO, kalai vANIyE, enRum em nAvil amarvAi

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 11 Apr 2007, 21:30

kalaivANi andaNan nAvil munbE amarnduviTTALE, en seyvadu?
It will be sacrilege to invite her to transplant herself!
We can only pray to kalaivANi to bless our tongues and pack our brains with good stuff!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 11 Apr 2007, 22:37

Aren't we all andaNar? vaLLuvar said
andaNarenbOr aRavOr evvuyirkkum
chenthaNmai pUNDozhukalAn
Don't we love all creations of God! Hence we are all brAman

Of course all women are intrinsically included since you cannot find anywhere
non brA(wo)man

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 12 Apr 2007, 00:00

Of course all women are intrinsically included since you cannot find anywhere

I believe it otherway. DNA studies have proved that man is an off-shoot of woman.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 Apr 2007, 01:20

VG
I have discussed it at
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=44580#p44580

gowri narayanan · Post by **gowri narayanan** » 06 May 2007, 14:39

what is the meaning of nekkurugi unai paNiya kal nenjai enakkaruLvai in abhogi,adi