Shyama Sastri's family

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 08 May 2008, 13:34

nick H wrote:It is about some people who just happen one-hundred-and-seventy-seven years after his death to belong to the same family.

This from a person from UK ??

By the same yard stick Prince Charles will have no right over the British Throne. He just happens to be the son of a Queen.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 08 May 2008, 14:29

You have a right to what you inherit from your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, or even those not at all related, should they chose to favour you in their will. That is closer to why he will have a right to the throne. It is also why I am lucky enough to be sitting in my own house.

The concept has nothing to do with the topic here, and nothing to do with any country, as inheritance occurs all over the world, even in India, and succession occurs in all countries that still have royalty. It even still occurs in the Republic of India --- at least as far as the titles are concerned! (it's not very far removed from "democratic" government, either; something that might also be said of the USA)

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 08 May 2008, 14:47

Let us acknowledge the possible difference in outlook between an "individualistic" Westerner and a "communitarian" Indian in matters of "entitlement". To cite an example, Bill and Melinda Gates are likely to leave only a very very small portion of their wealth to their children, and use the rest for funding charity. On the other hand, an Ambani or a Bajaj will ensure that several generations of their progeny continue to enjoy the fruits of their labour, they will pass on their entire wealth within the family. I am reminded of a Tamil description of another's wealth (simliar expressions possibly exist in other indian languages) - "Ezhu thalaimuraikku sothu serthu vechirukkar" (has earned enough wealth for seven generations). We perhaps feel that it's right for the succeding generations to get rewarded/ repaid for good deeds done by an ancestor.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 08 May 2008, 15:07

Nick H

There is a difference between getting a property by will and inheritance. Inheritance goes beyond properties. You inherit a legacy, by default , because you are born in a family irrespective of your qualification or worth. The same logic applies here also. Whatever be the reasons for their present state, they are the inheritors of the legacy of Sri Shyama Sastry and admirers of Shyma Sastri are moved by their plight.

If Mohan had posted the request for help for Mayanmar cyclone victims in a separate thread there would have no objections

vijay · Post by **vijay** » 08 May 2008, 15:42

I think sridhar_rang has captured the difference very well. I think we can agree to disagree here...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 May 2008, 19:04

According to Hindu laws, inheritance extends to 'intellectual property' of the ancestors. Many medical treatments (ayurvedic) were trade secrets held in families bequeathed to their descendants. By the same rule Vedas (until recently) were in the exclusive domains of brahmins who had a right over them by virtue of birth. The TN Govt has indeed 'unjustly' legislated that all classes of people can become Archakas which will not be valid according to Manu Smriti which was respected as the Code of Law for over 4000 years! Music (gandharva veda) is no way different. One of the reasons Musicians refused to teach non-brahmins CM in the 19th and early part of 20th century. Even Bharathy's compositions were 'bought' by TN Govt and made public property. Accordingly SS's descendants have every right to their forefather's musical creations (irrespective of any British Copyrights laws dictating period for lapse). These moral laws atill have credence to those who respect tradition and most of CM practioners are still very much tradition-bound.

gn.sn42 · Post by **gn.sn42** » 08 May 2008, 20:33

cmlover wrote:SS's descendants have every right to their forefather's musical creations (irrespective of any British Copyrights laws dictating period for lapse). These moral laws atill have credence to those who respect tradition and most of CM practioners are still very much tradition-bound.

I suspect that almost all of these "tradition-bound" CM practitioners have never paid a paisa in royalties to any composer, living or dead.

These "moral laws" are respected with flowery words rather than actual compensation...

neha · Post by **neha** » 08 May 2008, 20:47

For one thing I know the British royalty gets more than the inherited wealth ,including some portion of the Public Tax money.The Prince the heir to the Royal throne was called back from Afganistan 'cos his life was believed to be threatened.Is his life more precious than the general men.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 May 2008, 22:26

Another tamizh expression: tumbai viTTu vAlaip piDippadu (to let go of the animal of the tether and try to catch it by its tail)!

The individualistic westerner and now a royalist

and the easterner from the outbacks have become the focus, SS a distant third in the thread, thanks to posts from some of us who are zealous about the cause of contributing to the descendants of SS.

Personally, before getting to read about princess Diana, her arab connections, the oil prices and the american elections, let me get back to V.V. Sundaram's post which is what matters now (the malcontent rasikAs concentrating on two individuals will also agree with me on this, I hope).
Let those of us who want to show our devotion to SS do our bit and
also thank God for the individuals who take care of those who are in need of help in dire circumstances...
pAttiram aRindu piccai iDu (Know--evaluate-the recipient and give alms ) is another saying. Add to it one's right in choosing a cause...

By the way, wouldn't it be nice to see VVS's post again with the mailing addresses in order to refresh our memory and to get away from the 'tail' and get a grip on the situation??

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 08 May 2008, 23:37

Like Arasi says, I think this thread has wandered far away from its original intent and purpose. I have been getting emails from many others (not members of this forum) who are now running individual campaigns for SS's descendants. One of the messages even had a link to the discussion here and Sri VVS's post! The Hindu article has certainly had a large impact on music lovers worldwide.

CML-sir, while I agree with some of your esteemed views, I think citing the 4000 year old Manusmriti could lead us a to a very slippery slope. It is the same manusmriti that gave us 4000 years of reprehensible things like untouchability. We have a well-crafted constitutional legal system in India, that has outlawed some of the practices advocated by the smriti. So I think it is best to leave that hornet's nest alone.... However I agree with you on moral grounds, based on a sytem of ethics quite different from Manu's, that the descendants of Shyama Shastry should have some propriety over his creations.

I am also saddened to note that none of descendants of SS are musically trained, nor have they tried to preserve the great heritage that they come from. There were probably some serious economic reasons behing it. So, I am not being judgemental.. this is just an observation.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 08 May 2008, 23:49

mahavishnu wrote:I am also saddened to note that none of descendants of SS are musically trained, nor have they tried to preserve the great heritage that they come from. There were probably some serious economic reasons behing it. So, I am not being judgemental.. this is just an observation.

A slight dissent! I do not know about the ones in Hindu article. One of the great Grandsons of Shyama Sastri- he lived in Tanjavur & had an electrical shop & is no more- was quite good at Harmonium & used to play for Harikatha. He was quite knowledgeable & I learnt quite a lot from him. As a matter of fact he was the Harmonium player for Smt.Kamala Murthy's Harikathas I video taped about 10 years back actually at V.V.Sundaram's house in Adyar......

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 09 May 2008, 00:27

I am with nick on this. If you wish to pay homage to SS and his contribution to carnatic music, I am sure there are much better ways to do this (like instituting a scholarship or endownment to further the teaching and learning of his kritis). For all you know, these descendants may have no interest in carnatic music (unless they are the same people vkv referred to above), may not be following any of SS's ideals and SS himself may not want to have anything to do with them if he were able to give his opinion

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 09 May 2008, 01:04

VKV sir, this is a quote from one of SS's descendants, as written in the Hindu.

[quote]â€œShyama Sastriâ€™s contribution to Carnatic music is invaluable. But none of us was proficient in music or carried on his legacy, nor did we make an attempt to take advantage of being his descendants,â€

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 09 May 2008, 01:32

So now being proficient in music and taking advantage of one's heritage are criteria for you to support them?
Can't believe people are actually saying this.

To me not taking advantage of one's ancestry is a sign of humility, hence deserving of our support.
And is it their fault they are not proficient in music?

This thread is surely bringing out the worst in some people...

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 09 May 2008, 01:41

[quote="mahavishnu"]VKV sir, this is a quote from one of SS's descendants, as written in the Hindu.

[quote]â€œShyama Sastriâ€™s contribution to Carnatic music is invaluable. But none of us was proficient in music or carried on his legacy, nor did we make an attempt to take advantage of being his descendants,â€

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 09 May 2008, 01:56

VVS/VKV

Will it be possible to create a website at CAC for SS contribution wherein one can pay using
Visa/Master Card/American express/Pay Pal/...
instead of mailing the cheque to you. By that process one can pay in whatever currency region they be in. e.g., Canadians can contribute using C$ rather than you trying to convert currencies....

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 09 May 2008, 02:16

VKV sir, I see your point of view.
I agree with CML. Perhaps a website to make the donations will be a good idea. As I mentioned earlier, there are many people that are eager to make a contribution for this cause for varying personal/moral reasons.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 09 May 2008, 06:13

Nick....once again, to reiterate my position, I fully respect and understand where you come from.....but this thread was created with a question " how we can help this family?". All these discussions on inheritance, royalty ( what an anachronism !) serve no useful purpose for this cause.....

Perhaps, Rasika.org should provide the facilty of paying by visa, paypal etc so that we can go ahead and do some thing....

Ramnath Iyer · Post by **Ramnath Iyer** » 09 May 2008, 07:07

mahavishnu wrote:I am also saddened to note that none of descendants of SS are musically trained, nor have they tried to preserve the great heritage that they come from. There were probably some serious economic reasons behing it. So, I am not being judgemental.. this is just an observation.

that was a incorrect observation.....
Syama Sastri's son was Subbaraya Sastri whose adopted son was Annasamy Sastri (son of Panju Sastri, the elder son of Syama Sastri); Annasamy Sastri's son was another Syama Sastri....all these descendents were composers and musicians. Smt Vidya Sankar is a disciple of Syama Sastri, son of Annasamy Sastri.

A quote from Dr Y.Saradhambal from her blog http://syamasastri.blogspot.com/
"My sincere thanks are due to Sri S.Rajah, the direct descendent of Syama Sastri, who had furnished many useful informations regarding the three composers of their family. He also gave rare songs from his collections and the two unpublished songs of Annasvami Sastri from the notebooks of Syama Sastri Ã‰Ã‰.
My sincere thanks are due to Smt Vidya Shankar who had shared her days of discipleship under Syama Sastri Ã‰Ã‰ the great grandson of Syama Sastri she has also thrown light about some of the rare composition of Syama Sastri. I also thank her for the foreword given to my book. I also thank Dr.S.A.K.Durga and Dr.R.Kausalya for providing a suitable foreword for my book."

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 09 May 2008, 07:42

Ramnath, I was referring to a direct quote from Ms. Seethalakshmi that was paraphrased from the Hindu (pl see above posts)....

Enough said, I think it is time for being constructive. Sam, I am interested in knowing how you would like rasikas.org to organize a secure site for making online donations. Perhaps Sri VVS or VKV could come back with an idea for this as well.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 09 May 2008, 09:23

cmlover wrote:VVS/VKV

Will it be possible to create a website at CAC for SS contribution wherein one can pay using
Visa/Master Card/American express/Pay Pal/...
instead of mailing the cheque to you. By that process one can pay in whatever currency region they be in. e.g., Canadians can contribute using C$ rather than you trying to convert currencies....

Dear cmlover,
I will write VVS about your suggestion. I am in the Boonies & am not in a position to act on your excellent suggestion on behalf of the CAC. vkv

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 09 May 2008, 19:34

Unfortunately Rasikas Org at present does not have the facility to organize financial transactions or contributions. At present it is only a Forum for dissemination of information relating to CM as well as for a healthy discussion of issues relating to CM. However this is a matter that should be addressed by the Webmaster at his discretion.

VKV
Thanks for your interest and initiative.

jnaanasoonyam · Post by **jnaanasoonyam** » 10 May 2008, 15:36

How about collecting say $1 for every SS song that folks are currently downloading and enjoying for FREE from sites like sangeethapriya and forwarding the collected amount to the descendants? After all people are enjoying free music and not a penny goes either as royalty or donation to artistes/composers from such sites. They have no qualms even to allow people to upload commercially available recordings despite claiming on the main page "No commercial recordings. If a recording can be purchased then it does not belong on this site"

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 11 May 2008, 21:22

cmlover wrote:Unfortunately Rasikas Org at present does not have the facility to organize financial transactions or contributions. At present it is only a Forum for dissemination of information relating to CM as well as for a healthy discussion of issues relating to CM. However this is a matter that should be addressed by the Webmaster at his discretion.

Fortunately or unfortunately, what CML has said is true. We do not have the facility to organize financial transactions through this website at present. If and when this option becomes available, we will let everyone know.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 11 May 2008, 23:28

why don't you check out http://www.justgiving.com/Process/RaiseMoney?

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 12 May 2008, 03:33

As I write this little note, some 3170 people have viewed this thread. Assuming at least 50% would be keen to donate to this cause, we stand to collect well over Rs 150,000 by now. Sundaram and VKV sirs, please give us the bank details where we can remit our little donation to this cause...thanks

By the way, has some one contacted the family to find out whether they will accept this help from our group?

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 12 May 2008, 03:42

vvsundaram wrote:Dear Rasikas:

My name is V. V. Sundaram, and I am one of the volunteers who help run the Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival. I am also saddened by what I read.

The Cleveland Aradhana is currently planning on a concert built around the three swarajathis of Syama Sastry to be presented by the Sustaining Sampradaya group in the 2009 Cleveland Festival. We plan to request a donation of at least $100 from each of the selected participants towards establishing a fund to help Syama Sastry's descendants. We also plan to aggressively solicit other rasikas for their donation starting with the past attendees of our festival.

If you or any of your friends would like to donate towards this worthy cause, please write a check to Aradhana Committee with the words "Syama Sastry Family Fund" and mail it to the Aradhana Committee, 4 Cranberry Brook Drive, Millstone, NJ 07726 .

All donations will be gratefully acknowledged and if the individual permits, will be acknowledged in our website too. Please also note that your donations qualify for tax deduction.

The total amount collected and the disbursement procedures will be transparently shared with everyone through our web site.

Last December, I had an unique opportunity to take 16 of the Sustaining Sampradaya Group along with their parents to Thiruvarur, and all of us saw the sad state of the houses in which the Trinity lived. That we drive immense happiness through their music is undeniable, and I think along with that comes our duty to do what we can for their descendants.

Please write to me at [email protected] if you would like to help us in this task or if you have anything to communicate.

Thank you for your time.

Dear Sam,
As I had written before I live in a very remote part of USA- A "Pattikkadfu"- & VVS has given his email to contact him as well as a U.S. Address for the Aradhana Committee. REG contacting anyone in Chennai I do not know what he is doing & I also do not know whether he reads these posts. I try my best to monitor anything connected with CAC & appraise him periodically esp. if it involves the Aradhana. vkv

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 14 May 2008, 05:51

To my knowledge the direct descendents of SS [ same gothram ] are quite well off. The family in dire need should be from female lineage. However they should be given an helping hand. I am totally against imposing compulsory contributions from musicians either local or ones participating in Cleveland. The locals will immediately stop singing SS kritis. There should be voluntary contribution that too not out of their predecessors service to music but as a fellow human being. TAMBRAS should come in a big way to help such poor families. Hindu has done a big service to bring out the ordeal of a one poor family and should continue to publish articles, irrespective of caste or creed of the poor so that philonthropists get an opportunity to help the deserving.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 19 May 2008, 16:12

There is an article in " Kalki" wherein they have given the address in India

Aradhana committee-Syama Sastry Family Fund
3-Royal Enclave
Adyar
Chennai-600 020

If this is already given, pl disregard this.

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 22 May 2008, 18:26

I just talked to Mr.V.V Sundaram, who has come to Chennai. His contact Numbers are 044-24914103 and 044-24465543. He will be here in Chennai for 2 more weeks and he confirmed having collected Rs. 35000 and likely to wait for some more days and make it Rs. 50,000 to give it to Sri.SS family. This is apart from his US mission to help this family.

Chennai Address is given above.

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 23 May 2008, 06:01

It may be of interest to our forumites that the Andhra Pradesh Government has announced a grant of Rs.5,000 per month for more than a dozen decendents of Annamacharya at a ceremony to inaugurate a 100 ft. statue of Annamacharya at tAlapAkkam. Tamil Nadu Govt, also announced a similar grant to decendents of tamil poets yesterday ( source: The Hindu). Would they consider extending such grants to decendents of ShyAmA sAstri as well. Afterall they did so to decendents of PeriasAmy Thooran, whose cpmpositions also are of devotional nature.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 23 May 2008, 06:41

Sundara Rajan....you have raised a very interesting point....I just cannot wait to see the reaction of our fellow forumites on their views as to how our present DMK govt will act towards a cause like this, particularly, the ilk of Sri Syama Sastri !!

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 23 May 2008, 10:41

It would be a great and grand gesture if the present Tamilnadu Govt does something similar to the family of SS. If not maybe the Andhra Pradesh CM can consider extending a similar grant to the legendary composer's descendants as most of his compositions were indeed in Telugu.

knandago2001 · Post by **knandago2001** » 23 May 2008, 13:32

When it comes to CM, ours is indeed a shared cultural heritage. Any steps to preserve what we can would be in our own interests.

Intangible cultural heritage - UNESCO
www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?cp=IN&topic=mp

baboosh · Post by **baboosh** » 23 May 2008, 20:50

vgvindan wrote:mohan,
Unless you feel there is anything offensive about contributing for the descendants of SS, please do not offend others' sensibilities on the subject. Please exercise some restraint.

Dear VGV,
Iam tempted to quote Adishankara's Saundarya lahiri:Drisha Draggeyesya Daradalitha Neelotpalarucha sloka where the Grace of Devi is prayed for as Moon sheds its light on Palace and Thorny shrubs without making distinction.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 23 May 2008, 21:36

baboosh,
I am sorry - I am a little dull-witted. Can you please clarify your thrust?

baboosh · Post by **baboosh** » 24 May 2008, 20:57

vgvindan wrote:baboosh,
I am sorry - I am a little dull-witted. Can you please clarify your thrust?

Dear VGV,
The reference is to the Moon shedding its rays on all and sundry be it a Palace or a thorny shrub without seeing whether the recipient deserves it or not.This was the refrain of Adishankara while impleading to Ambal which I though people should consider while deciding to help the descendants of Syamasastri.VGV,your being dullwitted does not hold water

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 25 May 2008, 00:32

Baboosh,

Though I am undeserving according to shAstraic rules and regulations, where comes a rule or restraint when pure love is the principal matter? There are things which have an equanimous relationship with everything else irrespective of norms and regulations.

Discourse of Kanchi Paramacharya Chandrasekharendra Sarasvati explaing the SlOka quoted (No 57 of saundarya lahari)
http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/DPDS66-70.html

vvsundaram · Post by **vvsundaram** » 29 Jul 2008, 13:52

Dear Friends:

Here is a quick update. We have raised about Rs. 200,000. One of the big contributions came through the efforts of Sri Swaminathan of New Zealand, and it came early. The bulk of the balance of the contributions came from India, often in small amounts, with emotionally charged letters. One lady's last act before she shed her mortal coils was to write a check in favor of the fund. I was amazed at the outpouring of spontaneous support.

Two persons deserve special mention for making this effort worthwhile, Sri Murali, President of the Music Academy and Managing Director of "The Hindu" and Smt. Sita Ravi, Editor of the Tamil weekly "Kalki". Without their active support, the efforts would have been that much harder.

I personally met the descendants of Sri Syama Sastri's family and am satisfied about their bonafides and their need.

On Aug 9, 2008 at 5:30 P.M. we plan to have a function at the Music Academy and officially hand over a check to the family. Sri Murali has consented to preside over the function.

We have not sent in official receipts to the donors who have contributed to this worthwhile effort. We should be doing it in the next few weeks.

We are not planning to stop with this. The Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival plans to have a sustained campaign to help this family through the next festival in 2009. Vidwan Sr Shashikiran, Vidushi S. Sowmya and I are planning to put together two days of events on Aug 14th and 15th to bring more awareness on the plight of this family.

With sincere appreciation for all the support

V V Sundaram

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 29 Jul 2008, 19:58

Great work, VVS and the team of volunteers! The Hindu and Kalki, contributers in India and elsewhere in the world (for example, Sam who was quick to act), Sowmya and Shashikiran and all the unknown contributers who cared.
In this world where negative news is a reality, realizing a positive goal like this is heart-warming...

erode14 · Post by **erode14** » 29 Jul 2008, 20:03

great sir...

vvsundaram · Post by **vvsundaram** » 08 Aug 2008, 14:52

Dear Rasikas:

The following news item appeared in today's Hindu. This is just for your information.

V V Sundaram

Homage to Syama Sastri

The Aradhana Committee of the Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival has undertaken the task of raising funds to help the family of the descendents of Sri Syama Sastri. The familyâ€™s plight was brought to the notice of the general public by a reporter o f The Hindu two months ago.
The Aradhana committee decided to help the family members through general fundraising. The Tamil weekly Kalki also took up this issue. With the result, the Aradhana Committee has raised about two lakhs of rupees so far. The Aradhana Committee aims to raise, with the support of public, at least Rs. 10 lakhs so that a trust fund can be established to help educate their children. Contributions may be sent to The Aradhana Committee, 3, Royal Enclave, Adyar, Chennai 600 020. Checks/drafts should be in the name of â€œAradhana Committee.â€

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 09 Aug 2008, 04:00

Sundaram Sir....I do not have words to thank you and your team for all the efforts. The team here in NZ would be more than happy to serve you in this cause in any way we possibly can. Just let us know....regards