mRdaMgam in kALidAsa's time

Miscellaneous topics on Carnatic music
karthik76
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Post by karthik76 »

nick H wrote:The linking of musical instruments to ancient texts, or even to divinity, always seems rather tenuous to me.

My example is, we see a statue of Saraswati playing the veena, and we say, this is a holy instrument, it is just as Goddess Saraswati herself plays it.

But how else would the sculptor represent the veena, other than as the veenas that he saw played by humans?
I think the fact that all gods or goddesses are not associated with all musical instruments, also plays a part here. Sarasvati is considered the goddess of knowledge and speech/sound. The veena is an instrument capable of producing dense sound vibrations (pardon my lack of music terminology, but is this called gAndhAram?) that are symbolic of the mental vibrations that arouse the inner consciousness towards an awakening. We can feel the similarity between a pluck of the veena string that produces a dense sound and a slow and steady concentrated 'Om' meditation. I think it is about the symbolism. I can understand how objects in mundane use can become glorified due to their depiction in art, especially when in association with gods or goddesses. But, some objects/instruments find mention in the purANas or stories as associated to these dieties to symbolize greater principles - some that are quite obvious, others maybe not.
nick H wrote:According to the same logic, in centuries to come they will say that Vinayaka invented the umbrella --- or even the television remote control! ;)
I have seen vinAyaka with a cricket bat, even boxing gloves. There's no limit to imagination, of course.
Last edited by karthik76 on 20 Sep 2008, 01:43, edited 1 time in total.

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

Is this in Soundaryalahari where it is said that Goddess Saraswathi played the veena and when Goddess Parvati said 'well plyed', she immediately put hEr veena in its cover because the voice of Goddess Parvati was mor beautiful than the sound of her veena?

karthik76
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Post by karthik76 »

vipanchyA gAyantI vividham apadAnaM pashupate:
tvayArabdhe vaktuM calita shirasA sAdhu vacane |
tadIyai: mAdhuryai: apalapita tantrI kala ravAM
nijAM vINAM vANI nichulayati cholena nibhRtaM || 66 ||

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

Yes, that is the sloka I was referring to.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

Mridangam also is referenced in ancient Tamil literature. Silappadikaaram refers to the playing of taNNumai which is identified withmridangam. It is better known in Tamil as matthaLaM (etyymologically it may be maN + thaLaM = maTthalaM = matthaLaM referring to the origin from earth (maN)). It is claimed that the right side of the instrument was tuned to sa (called kural in Tamil) and the left to pa (callled iLi in Tamil)

arasi
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Post by arasi »

taLam is also tALam (beat); it means base too. thus a flat surfaced earthen instrument??

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

what are the other swaras called in 'tamizh'-tuttam, kaikkiLai and the rest I forgot.

arasi
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Post by arasi »

kural, tuttam, kaikkiLai, uzhai, iLi, viLari, tAram--
Last edited by arasi on 20 Sep 2008, 04:54, edited 1 time in total.

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

Thanks arasi.

vasanthakokilam
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Post by vasanthakokilam »

Just for fun some one should sing kalpanaswarams with

KU, TU, KA, UZH, IL, VIL, TA, KU

So, mohana varnam beginning will be

KA, KA, TU, TU, KU KU TU TU KA KA TU TU KU TU KA TU KU TU KU VIL

:)

arasi
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Post by arasi »

VK!!
I don't even know if it is in sequence! Besides, do you sing the svarAs in modern times as :
SaD rish gAndh panca daivat SaD?? :)
If they sang AND played at the same time, may be the svarAs you imagined sound more like it!
Last edited by arasi on 20 Sep 2008, 07:04, edited 1 time in total.

rshankar
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Post by rshankar »

cmlover wrote:Mridangam also is referenced in ancient Tamil literature. Silappadikaaram refers to the playing of taNNumai which is identified withmridangam. It is better known in Tamil as matthaLaM
Does ANDAL pre-date silappadikAram? She does say 'mattaLam koTTa, vari Sangam ninru Uda...' as she describes the arrival of maittuNan nambi to accept her hand...

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

No! She comes much later. Silappadikaram is about the first century or earlier.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Silappadhikaram was composed during the reign of Kalabhras (believed to be jains, 3rd to 6th century AD), and it first finds an external reference from Pallava times (who ruled from c. 600 AD). Andal is from the time of the bhakti movement i.e 9th century AD or so. Most of the saivite and vaishnavite works of nayanmars and alwars date to this period when hindu movements quickly filled in the void created by the decline of Buddhism and Jainism in south India.

The song kanakasabhai tiru natanam (surati) by GKB?? contains a line "kanakasabhApati kIrtanam pADa gopAlakrishnan maddalam pOda..." if I remember right.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

You are right srkris
Silappadikaram is pegged at about 3rd Century. We have to check whether there is a reference in Tolkappiyam or the first Sangam literature to check whether matthaLaM is cited.
Do we know when nadasvaram was introduced? Naturally 'thavil' would have occurred at that period. In common parlance it is called koTTu mELaM.
Both these are Dravidian musical instruments.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

I just tried to trace the etymology for maddalam in tamil lexicon. It says it's derived from skt mardala, and when i searched for mardala, the word is traced to the Mahabharata.

What is the tamil name for nagaswaram? Tavil is derived from the Urdu root "tabl-" as per the Tamil lexicon, so as a drum, its name is related to the tabla.

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

There is word-'nAyanam'-does it not refer to nAgaswaram(nAdswaram?)

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

MW tracks both mridanga and mardala to Mahabharata.

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Punarvasu wrote:There is word-'nAyanam'-does it not refer to nAgaswaram(nAdswaram?)
Does it? I am not sure. nAyanam is a vRddhi form of nayana and just means 'related to eyes' as far as I understand.
cmlover wrote:MW tracks both mridanga and mardala to Mahabharata.
MW splits it as mRdam+ga which seems to be incorrect, and he explains that it means 'going about while being beaten'. I am not sure how he got that meaning from the word.

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

srkris,
You were asking for the tamizh name for nAgaswaram and I gave the tamizh word 'nAyanam' which refers to the instument; like, in those days, people saying 'fiddle' for violin, I remember my grandprents and people of the generation saying 'nAyanam vAsikkarA'.
Last edited by PUNARVASU on 23 Sep 2008, 21:14, edited 1 time in total.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

The dhatu ( m^Rid 'kShOdE') means to press/crush/beat/kill/rub off/... and with the gerundive pratyaya (Namul (aM)) we get m^RidaM meaning 'beating'.
m^Ridam gacchati iti m^Ridamga is the right vigraha vAkya .

srkris
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Post by srkris »

Punarvasu wrote:srkris,
You were asking for the tamizh name for nAgaswaram and I gave the tamizh word 'nAyanam' which refers to the instument; like, in those days, people saying 'fiddle' for violin, I remember my grandprents and people of the generation saying 'nAyanam vAsikkarA'.
Oh, I was not aware of this word.. seems it is indeed another name (perhaps no longer used) for the nagaswaram.

cmlover
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Post by cmlover »

The rustic terminology is 'nAyanam' for nadasvaram and 'mELam' for tavil.
... and of course 'otthu' for the drone :)
and add to it 'jAlra' for the kiNNAraM !

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

I remembe my grand parents(&people of their genertion) saying, 'reTTai nAyanam Arambicchacchu' when two children fight and both of them start crying.:D
Last edited by PUNARVASU on 24 Sep 2008, 23:53, edited 1 time in total.

PUNARVASU
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Post by PUNARVASU »

When I see the word 'ottu', I remember a joke our music teacher used to say. It seems a jameendAr (who did not have any knowledge of music) had arranged for a nAyanakkaccEri at his place. At the end of the kuccEri it seems he paid 100Rs for the nAyana vidwAn and 500 Rs. for the 'ottu Udaravan' because he was playing continuously! :D

arasi
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Post by arasi »

While you were all considering the word 'nAyanam' , I tried to google it to no avail. Of course, we grew up with that word. 'iraTTai nAyanam' for a duo (crying or putting across a point or in nagging) was a familiar expression. nAyanak KArar vandArA? (has the piper arrived?) Rajaratnam piLLai nAyanam pOL varumA?--and so on.
A good one about the 'ottu', Punarvasu. If someone agrees with everything one says, 'ottu (oTRU--in agreement) UdugiRathu is another expression. jAlrA (kiNNAram) is more complicated in content, I guess. Flatterers, self-serving 'yes men'...

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