mRdaMgam in kALidAsa's time

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 09 Sep 2008, 02:26

The mridanga is a very old instrument, or so it seems. Not only is it mentioned in the Mahabharata, but also found in Kalidasa's works.

I found a reference to mridangam playing when I was reading Kalidasa's Meghadutam today. So in his lifetime (3rd-4th centuries AD) itself the mridanga was used.

If any of you have found its mention in other such old literature, please add.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 09 Sep 2008, 02:52

Mahabharata is placed around 2500 BCE, so pre-dates Kalidasa by quite a few centuries.

sankirnam · Post by **sankirnam** » 09 Sep 2008, 07:36

The earliest mrudangams used to be made of clay, hence the sanskrit etymology mrudangam = mrut + angam - "clay body".

That is why UKS sir always insists on spelling mrudangam with a u, and not with an i as in "mridangam".

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 09 Sep 2008, 13:21

Modern linguists believe the mahabharata was composed in the first millenium BCE and not in the third millenium BCE (i.e not 2500 BCE), so we cant be sure that the mridanga was known long before 500 BCE.

Why I mentioned Kalidasa's meghaduta is that no one doubts Kalidasa or the period in which he lived.

I am not so sure that earlier mridangas used to be made of clay. Is a clay mridanga specimen available anywhere today? Is it mentioned in any literature that mRdanga used to be made of clay? I feel mridangas cannot be made of clay since they may tend to break when they are played, unlike ghatam. Ghata itself means pot in sanskrit. Ghatotkacha (Bhima's son in Mahabharata) is called "pot headed", that's what his name means.

mRd has several meanings -- break, press, wipe, destroy etc. It also means clay.
mRdu has one meaning - soft/tender/gentle.

So mRdaMgam should be mRdu+aMgam rather than mRd+aMgam since its heads are made of skin/leather which is supposed to be soft/gentle (mRdu = gentle, aMgam = part/organ). 'Clay part' wouldn't be a proper description because it doesn't have any meaning.

About pronounciation, the R in mRdaMgam is neither ri nor ru but something between both. When you attempt to say 'create', but stop with 'cr', you get the sound of this R. There are other similar words with this R like kRshna (meaning dark) which should not be pronounced either as krishna nor krushna. Other words are wRksham (tree), mRgam (animal), pRthwi (earth).

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Sep 2008, 13:56

I think that the word is used for different drums in different parts of India, and that the only thing they have in common is being double-ended.

I'm sure its ancient; simply the fact that nobody seems to really know its origin suggests that it is old. Nobody seems to know how the Indian multi-layer drum head came to be developed, even.

The linking of musical instruments to ancient texts, or even to divinity, always seems rather tenuous to me.

My example is, we see a statue of Saraswati playing the veena, and we say, this is a holy instrument, it is just as Goddess Saraswati herself plays it.

But how else would the sculptor represent the veena, other than as the veenas that he saw played by humans?

According to the same logic, in centuries to come they will say that Vinayaka invented the umbrella --- or even the television remote control!

Faith is another matter. Even I am pleased to have Saraswati play8ing the veena in my puja room, along with vinayaka playing his mridangam.

And, according to my faith, I now will adopt the idea that mridangam includes 'gentle' in its etymology: I like that

On the origin of drums in general, my idea is that it is simpler to hollow out a shape from a tree trunk than it is to create quite a large and sophisticated form in pottery, especially if it is fired, without which it would have no real strength or resistance to water. My theory, then, is that wooden drums are the most ancient.

I have no academic knowledge or information to back this up: I'm sure one of our members must know?

ram · Post by **ram** » 09 Sep 2008, 14:05

srkris wrote:I am not so sure that earlier mridangas used to be made of clay. Is a clay mridanga specimen available anywhere today? Is it mentioned in any literature that mRdanga used to be made of clay? I feel mridangas cannot be made of clay since they may tend to break when they are played, unlike ghatam.

Sri R. Rangaramanuja Ayyangar in his book "History of South Indian (Carnatic) Music" says that Bharata in his book Natya Sastra (estimated to have been written in the period around 500 BC) traced his knowledge of avanAdha vAdyAs (closed instruments) to authorities before him, Svati and Narada, who had written about their characteristics and functions. It has been written that of the avanAdha vAdyAs:
* mrudangam had a body made of clay
* pushkaras, panava, dardara were made of wood
* muraja was modeled after dundubhi the celestial kettle drum
All these were covered with hide (closed instruments) and hence the name avanAdha vAdyAs.

I have read in some other sources that depressions/holes were made on either side of the body of clay and hide was used as a cover over these. The instrument over the years evolved and began to be made out of hollow shell of wood than clay.

Will get back with more information about the sources once I get back home and am able to trace my old notes.

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 11 Sep 2008, 13:07

Dear Members

My Guru Ramanathapuram M.N.Kandaswamy Pillai had a mridangam made out of clay and i have seen it. It was too heavy weighing more than about 15-18 Kilos. But i dont know its whereabouts now.

J.Balaji

Shivadasan · Post by **Shivadasan** » 11 Sep 2008, 15:26

Benaras Tabla Makers told me that originally the Tabla was made of Clay. Even today the "bayan" the left (Toppi part of it) is available in clay and is very popular and cheap. It sounds very good.
Ancient culture was famous for its potteries and creating a mridanga would not have been a problem for them. In those days ropes were used for tightening the skin. Some of the Mohanjo daro images show double sided maddalam tied with ropes.
Identifying when the clay was substituted by wood would be a very interesting subject for research.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 11 Sep 2008, 16:55

http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/mrudanga.html

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 11 Sep 2008, 19:33

Thanks for that page, Mohan

Now what is more relevant to the inquiry on hand is Bharata’s description of the make-up of this tri-pushkara. In Natyasastra, Bharata goes on to describe the mrittika or mud. We are now familiar with the dark material, called "soru", made of powder of kitta-stone and gum of cooked rice applied in a disc form on the right side of the mrudanga. In Sarangadeva’s time too, some such material was applied but in Bharata’s time this was really ‘mud’, mrit, the fine bluish mud deposited at the waterbrink of rivers. It is this mud-application that really gives the sound to the drum-face and hence is the drum named after this essential ingredient mrit, the MRUD-ANGA.

This makes sense.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Sep 2008, 21:03

Enjoying this thread which 'sings' sogasugA in mrudanga tALamu.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 11 Sep 2008, 22:38

arasi wrote:Enjoying this thread which 'sings' sogasugA in mrudanga tALamu.

But the 'dhIruDu' still remains unrevealed ('yevvaDO')

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 12 Sep 2008, 00:14

Balaji, interesting to hear of your guru's clay mridangam.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 Sep 2008, 08:41

Ravi,
We sing 'mahAnubhAvulandariki vandanamu' . How many of them remain unknown in our unrecorded history!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Sep 2008, 10:01

I just found a reference to m^ridangam in the sundara kaaNDaM of valmiki ramayaNa.
anyA kanaka samkAshaiH m^ridu pInaiH manOramaiH
m^ridangam paripIDya angaiH prasuptA matta lOcanA
(SundarakANDaM 10.42)
This is a description of the concubines of RavaNa as seen by Hanuman who was found sleeping clutching a mridangam in her body.
There are several references to other musical instruments in that chapter. Since Ramayana is the oldest literature, the reference in it to mridangam confirms the ancient nature of that musical instrument.

Also it is interesting to note that the ancient mridangam players were women

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 17 Sep 2008, 13:17

Is it Manipuri where the dancers play drums at the same time as dancing?

I think that even that drum, quite unlike ours, is called a mridangam.

So perhaps we have an ancient, and general word, rather than an ancient instrument? The scholars here should be able to comment on that theory.

But even if someone were to prove it was developed only yesterday I would still love it as much!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 17 Sep 2008, 16:55

nick H wrote:I think that even that drum, quite unlike ours, is called a mridangam.!

I think it is this 'different' mrudanga that is the reference for the line 'mirdang bOlE tarikiTatOm tarikiTatOm....' from the lovely song 'madhuban mein rAdhikA nAcE rE'!

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 17 Sep 2008, 17:46

rshankar wrote:'mirdang bOlE tarikiTatOm tarikiTatOm....' from the lovely song 'madhuban mein rAdhikA nAcE rE'!

Should be mRdang bAje, not mRdang bole

Talking mrdangas are not yet in vogue.

The so-called manipuri mrdanga - http://www.chandrakantha.com/articles/i ... /pung.html

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 17 Sep 2008, 18:45

yes..bAjE....well, if you ask Ram, he will confirm that making the mrudang 'talk' is in the hands of the mrudangist!

'mrudangam pESum, adai koTTum kaigaLai kaNDu' (like that film song that goes - 'vINai pESum...'):P

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Sep 2008, 20:22

Now-a-days one reads the mridangam
(mridangam vaaSikkiRaar)

When the artiste goes west he plays the mridangam
(mridangam viLayaaDukiRaar) :/
And a bad artiste simply knocks it
(mrdangam koTTaRaan)

And of course when he gets mad he beats it
(mridangam aDikkaRaan)

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 17 Sep 2008, 20:45

If it were ghatam
one can add this too-
'ghatattai pandAdRAr'-
lucky for the mridangam-
'yArum mridngattai pandADa mudiyAdu'

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Sep 2008, 21:08

..and the ghatam player also has the derisive appellation of a debtor ( kaDa^Nkaaran) from which the mridangist is spared

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 17 Sep 2008, 21:11

CML. that was just too good!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 17 Sep 2008, 21:36

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 18 Sep 2008, 00:47

Oh woe is me... and silly too.

How could I have brought up etymology without knowing I would be trampled underfoot by the replies?

Do carry on... I'd hate to spoil a run of good jokes, even if I don't understand them!

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 18 Sep 2008, 01:13

When the artiste goes west he plays the mridangam
(mridangam viLayaaDukiRaar) hmm

This isn't just a play of words...
It was really uttered..
I was sitting in a mridangam class here and the teacher asked the kid in tamil "how long did you practice"
The kid replied in broken tamil " innikki 15 min vilayAdinEn "

The teacher and I chuckled a bit.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Sep 2008, 01:42

Suji,
The difference between translation and literal translation! I am glad that the child living in the US knows this much tamizh! I do not know how much his counterparts growing up in India know. Unless they are students of tamizh, their tamizh is impoverished indeed--which brings us to the usage of various verbs. Since their tamizh is such a melange of an expression--English to the rescue, Hindi too?--they do not seek the apt tamizh words. They know one of the two verbs in tamizh for 'to do'--SeigiRadu, paNNugiRadu. So, it is dance paNNugiRAdu, sing seigiRadu, play paNNugiRadu (this particular child goes one step further and wants to say it all in tamizh--which becomes=mirudangam viLAiyADinEn).

For Nick's sake:
pandADugiRadu is 'to play ball' (the ghaTam gets thrown up in the air). One cannot do that with the mrudangam for the fear of hurting oneself or for the fear of inviting law suits.
Don't get frustrated with your tamizh. You know enough, but the hurdles and complications are not uniquely yours . Even some of those who enjoy the jokes may not know that much either

CML's pun comes from the sanskrit connection:
ghaTam+kAran (r)=ghaTankArar--one who who plays the ghaTam. While you write it in tamizh, it can also be read as kaDankArar (kaDan=kArar) which is kaDan (debt) kArar (one who owes).
Now, don't tear your hair out!

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 18 Sep 2008, 01:59

Nick, wait till you read this,before you tear your hair out.
In kambarAmAyaNam, it says
'kaDan paTTAr nenjam pOl kalanginAn ilangai vEndan'
Nowadays, I think it should be
'kaDan koDuttAr nenjam pOl kalanginAn ilangai vEndan'
Now seeing Nick's plight', I feel like writing
'kaDankAran 'jOkkai 'keTTavar pOl kalnginAn ilangai vEndan.
Sorry nick, all said in humour; as usual Arasi will translate it for you.
I dont know how to use the smileys; hence again and again, I have to write it is just a joke.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Sep 2008, 02:27

ilangai vEndan or the man from the British Isles?

Nick,
Don't think that just the colonists had their translators, I have been appointed one to a brit!
The gist of what Punarvasu says:
rAvaNA the mighty (the ruler of Sri lankA), when his end was nigh, felt as agitated as a debtor who had not paid off his debts. It was in the good old days. Nowadays, it is rather the lender who experiences the pangs of pain, she says.

Personally, I suppose it is the same feeling I get the at that moment when the sound (noise?) loving mrudangist starts playing like thunder claps announcing that hell has broken out...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Sep 2008, 07:36

Here is another 'kuRaL' joke!
Tie kaTTi vAzhvArE vAzhvAr -- maRRellAM
kai kaTTi pin chelbavar
Now for the benefit of Nick:
This means only those who wear a Tie will have a good liife and all the rest will be underdogs. The joke was a reality during the British rule when wearing the European dress (with a Tie) was considered 'high status' symbol and the poor 'natives' were treated like dirt by the superiors.
(Not that the plebians fare any better these days under the Govt beaurocrats, Tie or no Tie

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Sep 2008, 10:04

Tai illAdu, mEl tuNi illAdu, kai vISi naDandu,
kaittozhil, uzhaippin taram kATTi--nATTin
talaivan viDudalaikku vazhi kATTinAn--

Tai AnAlum, tOL tuNDE AnAlum,
talaimai tAnguvOR pinnE
kai kaTTi naDAppOm,
aDimait taLai kaLaiyOm...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Sep 2008, 10:16

Without a tie, an upper cloth, he walked, swinging his arms,
Showing us the merits of handicrafts and hard work,
The leader of the country who led us to freedom--

Whether it be tie or an upper cloth
That one who leads us wears,
We would follow him with hands folded,
Not shedding the burden of our shackles...

Before someone alerts me about deviation from the subject matter of mrudangam, I hasten to say, Gandhi the great walker did take his steps rhythmically, and the followes of the latter leaders are very good at keeping (putting) tALam (reverse translation now: tALam pODugiRadu

V_ANNASAMY · Post by **V_ANNASAMY** » 18 Sep 2008, 10:31

puraTTaashi mAdaththil, puNNiya manidanAm
karmamchand gandhiyai ninaivu koorndhu, puraTTaashi*
alla , nallAshiyE peruvOm. tannihar
illA, eLiya talaivarumavarE.

* puraTTu + aashi

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Sep 2008, 10:48

kavidaiyum SilEDaiyum kai kOrttu naDakkumAm
anbar aNNASamiyin 'aNNal' kavidaiyilE...balE

V_ANNASAMY · Post by **V_ANNASAMY** » 18 Sep 2008, 11:08

nanRi arasi avargaLE.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Sep 2008, 11:12

arasiyum aNNAsAmiyum arunthamizhil araTTai aDitthiDinum axthu amuthamE Akum
enRu koTTu muraSE

(note x = Aytha ezhutthu)
(Even when Arasi and ANNAsAmy jocularly play with words in the sweet Tamil it is Nectar indeed saying so let the drum proclaim ( to make it relevant to this thread

beginner · Post by **beginner** » 18 Sep 2008, 11:14

arasiyum rasiththa 'aNNalai' kaNmun kanDEn.
varavirukkum 'jayanthi'kku vazhuththum tandEn.

108talas · Post by **108talas** » 18 Sep 2008, 11:34

'puraTTI' eDuththuu viTTArgal pulavargaL. (relavant to the subject

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 18 Sep 2008, 18:39

Goodness me! What a festival has broken out!

And thank you for the fragments of translation

I empathise greatly with the 'tie' stuff, having had to wear one for years, and seeing now that British dress of suit-and-tie being forced upon men in this climate that is so unsuited to them!

I'm sure you poets can work in the fact that there are five-star establishments in Chennai where one is not allowed entry wearing chapels and vesti --- and that this applies just as much to a British mridangam student! Of course, they are establishments I have no wish to enter anyway, but I still resent the senseless 'dress-code' which is at such variance with local tradition.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Sep 2008, 19:47

...and weather conditions.
Note that during the navarathri music festival at Thiruvananthapuram the men are not allowed to wear a shirt inside the hall. No doubt if one wore he would die of suffocation! Note also that the GhaTam players invariably keep their upper Torso bare. In fact Times wrote an editorial about it when a CM music performance occurred late in the 19th century at Edinburg!

By the by Gandhiji refused to wear a suit when he visited London for the Round Table Conference (he wanted to represent the peasants of Bharat!) while Churchill ridiculed him calling him 'the half-naked Fakir'.

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 18 Sep 2008, 22:15

arasi wrote:Tai illAdu, mEl tuNi illAdu, kai vISi naDandu,
kaittozhil, uzhaippin taram kATTi--nATTin
talaivan viDudalaikku vazhi kATTinAn--

Tai AnAlum, tOL tuNDE AnAlum,
talaimai tAnguvOR pinnE
kai kaTTi naDAppOm,
aDimait taLai kaLaiyOm...

That was fantastic Arasi

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 19 Sep 2008, 00:40

aNNal kATTiya vazhiyai marandOm,inRu
ennAr kATTiya vazhyai ellAmO todargiROm
En enRu kAraNam kETTAl
enRum rattattil URiya aDimaittanmE enbOmE.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 19 Sep 2008, 03:26

Hello people, this is about mRdangam's history. Unrelated poetry should ideally have its own thread. Shall I create a separate section for the same if there are a lot of poets around?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Sep 2008, 05:56

Sorry folks!
For a while the beats were intoxicating and we lost our rhythm!
Back to business...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Sep 2008, 07:44

Did they play tani in kAlidAsA's time? Were there equal number of men playing the mrudangam as women did, even from earlier times, as CML quoted from the sundara kANDam which describes the scene in rAvaNA's palace?
Even in old sculptures, we see women gracefully playing the mrudangam as though it is not a pakka vAdyam but as part of the dance team--dancing too perhaps at the same time.

parimalphadke · Post by **parimalphadke** » 19 Sep 2008, 14:35

There is an interesting book in Hindi titled " Kalidas ke samay mein sangeet" I ;; let you know the publisher ....it has detailed analysis

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Sep 2008, 22:41

Traditionally mridangam is associated with NandikEshvara. There are also puranic references to Siva dancing while Narayana played the mridangam. There must have been lots of women players to entertain the Kings in their Zenana. Men refusing to play for women was observed in the 20th century

Even now there are not enough women players compared to other musical instruments. I wonder why? For example Niick can confirm whether there are women in his class!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 19 Sep 2008, 23:25

Very, very few, cmlover, and they usually only came because they were dance students needing to get some mridangam hands-on.

Am I right in thinking that the seniors not playing for women thing seems to be fading away, at least amongst the younger generation? I hope so, of course.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Sep 2008, 23:52

Thanks Nick! I too hope so

karthik76 · Post by **karthik76** » 20 Sep 2008, 01:25

I have heard krupAnanda vAriyAr svAmigaL say in his upanyAsam that veena, venu and mrudangam are the only instruments that find mention in the vedas.